***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

[BeeGee]

That's a paddlin'.

 

[viriya]

Here's a fact: No one from Asia ever does. And his shot at becoming an ATG depends on his all round exploits anyways. As a spinner alone, there will be so many better options before his name comes up.

If he gets 200 more wickets at this rate you think there'll be a lot more spinners that you can pick before him?

 

[Shri]

If he gets 200 more wickets at this rate you think there'll be a lot more spinners that you can pick before him?

Yes. Murali, Warne, O'Reily, Laker, Grimmett, Underwood, Verity, etc.,

If at all he gets into an ATG side, he would be the 12th man at best or an allrounder you would pick specifically for a turner at #7 or #8. He is going to be getting in based on both his batting and bowling. He won't make it in as a specialist spinner. If his average drops drastically, I guess you could come back to this topic at that time.

 

[viriya]

Yes. Murali, Warne, O'Reily, Laker, Grimmett, Underwood, Verity, etc.,

If at all he gets into an ATG side, he would be the 12th man at best or an allrounder you would pick specifically for a turner at #7 or #8. He is going to be getting in based on both his batting and bowling. He won't make it in as a specialist spinner. If his average drops drastically, I guess you could come back to this topic at that time.

I didn't say he would get into the first ATG XI, but of your list I think only Murali, Warne, O'Reilly and Grimmett are clearly ahead of him atm.

 

[Dan]

fmd, Ashwin is nowhere near the class of bowler of Laker or Verity of the names mentioned there, and Deadly is still significantly better than him. Plus, like, a whole host of other names. He's literally played 9 Test matches across Australia/England/South Africa for 24 of his 200 wickets. He's got a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as the guys Shri listed.

I'm not suggesting the bloke needs to average 25 everywhere, but when the bloke has 3/4 of his wickets in India + SL at <20, has a career average vs Australia of 34 despite getting to minnow-bash them every two years in a home series, and literally wasn't selected during India's last tours of New Zealand and South Africa (barring that one wicketless Test in RSA), there is no chance in hell that he can be considered an ATG.

 

[Dan]

I mean, Kumble, Bedi and Chandrasekhar are both significantly ahead of him in the India spinners stakes. Probably Harbhajan too (purely from a longevity standpoint). Ashwin's in the conversation with the likes of Prassana and Gupte in the next tier down, but he's nowhere near an Indian ATG XI, let alone a combined one.

 

[91Jmay]

Whilst dominating one set of conditions shouldn't been seen as such a negative as much as it is on this forum, I still AWTA totally.

 

[weldone]

He can eventually be a better all-rounder than the likes of Botham and Kapil.

 

[viriya]

fmd, Ashwin is nowhere near the class of bowler of Laker or Verity of the names mentioned there, and Deadly is still significantly better than him. Plus, like, a whole host of other names. He's literally played 9 Test matches across Australia/England/South Africa for 24 of his 200 wickets. He's got a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as the guys Shri listed.

I'm not suggesting the bloke needs to average 25 everywhere, but when the bloke has 3/4 of his wickets in India + SL at <20, has a career average vs Australia of 34 despite getting to minnow-bash them every two years in a home series, and literally wasn't selected during India's last tours of New Zealand and South Africa (barring that one wicketless Test in RSA), there is no chance in hell that he can be considered an ATG.

Murali averaged 75 in Australia and 45 in India. Warne averaged 43 in India and 40 in WI. Are they not ATG?

This idea that somehow every player has to have this well-rounded "very good everywhere" resume to be considered an ATG is nonsensical imo.

 

[Shri]

I mean, Kumble, Bedi and Chandrasekhar are both significantly ahead of him in the India spinners stakes. Probably Harbhajan too (purely from a longevity standpoint). Ashwin's in the conversation with the likes of Prassana and Gupte in the next tier down, but he's nowhere near an Indian ATG XI, let alone a combined one.

He will easily get into an all time Indian XI. Harbhajan was seriously terrible for a long time before he was dropped. His repeated over pitched balls on leg stump regardless of the track he was playing on was a ****ing nightmare and depressing to watch as a fan of good spin bowling. He was the Ishant Sharma of spinners for us by the time of his axing.

 

[Shri]

Murali averaged 75 in Australia and 45 in India. Warne averaged 43 in India and 40 in WI. Are they not ATG?

This idea that somehow every player has to have this well-rounded "very good everywhere" resume to be considered an ATG is nonsensical imo.

The thing that counts against him at this stage is not his poor average but his inexperience in away games. No one seriously expects his average to be as good as it is in India when he is playing away.

 

[weldone]

Haha ya Ashwin is better than Bedi by now.

He's a no. 6 in my ATG Indian XI, dropping Kapil to no. 7.

 

[andruid]

Does the world need a strong New Zealand cricket team?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Haha ya Ashwin is better than Bedi by now.

He's a no. 6 in my ATG Indian XI, dropping Kapil to no. 7.

If you're taking his bowling into account, Ashwin is better for sure, but he's not better as a bowler yet imo, not close. Bedi and Chandra gunned it overseas in multiple series. Ashwin needs a couple like those to put him over the edge.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Murali averaged 75 in Australia and 45 in India. Warne averaged 43 in India and 40 in WI. Are they not ATG?

This idea that somehow every player has to have this well-rounded "very good everywhere" resume to be considered an ATG is nonsensical imo.

What a silly post. The point isn't that Ashwin needs to average 12 in Australia like he does at home. But he needs to do something outside the SC. I think he's good enough to succeed if not dominate in foreign conditions, but this all feels ridiculously premature to me.

 

[Bahnz]

Now that Jeets is back there's one more thing we need, one last piece of the puzzle, to have series victory assured. Kane has done nothing wrong as captain, but we need him focused on scoring 50% of the team's runs in every innings. No, for a captain we need a champion, a leader of men, a winner. You know what that means lads:

 

[honestbharani]

Think what I said earlier about Ashwin still stands. Way too early to have him in ATG discussions and for me, I still have Harbhajan over him at the moment purely as a spinner.


And lol @ "Randomly becoming toothless".. Its called batsmen getting in and getting used to the pitch and the bowlers and playing them well.. (In b4 OS posts **** as a response)

 

[harsh.ag]

I mean, Kumble, Bedi and Chandrasekhar are both significantly ahead of him in the India spinners stakes. Probably Harbhajan too (purely from a longevity standpoint). Ashwin's in the conversation with the likes of Prassana and Gupte in the next tier down, but he's nowhere near an Indian ATG XI, let alone a combined one.

Agreed, though Prasanna and Chandra and Kumble are the top tier, with Bedi and Gupte in the next.

 

[OverratedSanity]

And lol @ "Randomly becoming toothless".. Its called batsmen getting in and getting used to the pitch and the bowlers and playing them well.. (In b4 OS posts **** as a response)

Nonsense, he had a couple of spells where he genuinely didn't bowl well. Even today he bowled something like 5 long hops in 6 overs in the morning. It's nitpicking but there's no need to ignore that he isn't perfect. He hasn't bowled a truly marathon spell recently where he gives nothing away, like ATG spinners do.

 

[Shri]

Yeah and him conceding over a 100 runs on days 4 and 5 is a slight concern as well.