*Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

Nope - but expensive wickets are less use than cheap wickets.

 

[Richard]

A poor average is a poor average. Agree. But those were dream batting decks over there. So you go more on strike-rates. You are just making lame excuses as ever.

So the likes of Younis, Marshall, Donald, Trueman, Headley, Hadlee, Holding, McGrath just have fluke bowling strike-rates? :rolleyes:

Um maybe because the others did not do well because of the conditions? Didn't take that into account did you?

Butler is a wicket-taking bowler, one that is expensive, and that's why you should read more into his strike rate. Number of balls before a wicket.

I take into account that outstanding bowlers prevail in all conditions. There is no such thing as unfavourable conditions to the like of Marshall, Waqar Younis, Donald, Hadlee and Holding. Some tell me it is the same with McGrath.
And quite how Dean Headley got into that group I don't know. Because if his strike-rate is up with theirs then, yes, he certainly fluked it!
Butler is NOT a wicket-taking bowler - he just managed a six-for once. Otherwise he hasn't got very many wickets, and for obvious reasons.
Just because someone is wayward and quick doesn't automatically mean they're a "wicket-taker", "enigma" or anything like that.
My point about Bond's strike-rate is: so what if all of them were poor, and he was the best of a bad bunch? It doesn't mean he's good.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The point about the SL series - it would be a challenge for any bowler to have a decent average on those tracks.

 

[Richard]

Chaminda and Murali do it year-in-year-out.
Because outstanding bowlers prevail on all surfaces.

 

[marc71178]

Chaminda and Murali do it year-in-year-out.
Because outstanding bowlers prevail on all surfaces.

So how does Vaas do it then?

And I wouldn't say he does it year in year out.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Vaas managed 6 wickets @ SR 73.5, Murali 13 @ 74.6. Bond 5 @ 70.8

That series was not conducive to wicket taking - hence the 0-0.

 

[Tim]

Agreed....in the first test anyway...Fleming & Tilakaratne both batted 2 days each I think.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

Chaminda and Murali do it year-in-year-out.
Because outstanding bowlers prevail on all surfaces.

Well,Vaas and Murali had played on them for mjany years when they were young.

ever wondered why in the indian tour of nz we always beat their score (most of the time),and bowled the indians out for ridicoulus totals,and reached them despite india haveing a better batting lineup?(tendulkar,dravid,laxman...)Its because our batsmen are used to bad pitches,cos pitches here are usuallybowler pitches.Although we get a good 600 run pitch every now and then.

 

[Richard]

So how does Vaas do it then?

And I wouldn't say he does it year in year out.

He has done it consistently enough to average 26.something at home.
Still a little disappointing given the ability I consider he has, but not bad compared to most bowlers around ATM. Few are good enough to average under 27.
And he does it by bowling everything, as I have said many times. He might be inconsistent, but when he's bowling like he can he's unplayable in any conditions.

 

[Richard]

Vaas managed 6 wickets @ SR 73.5, Murali 13 @ 74.6. Bond 5 @ 70.8

That series was not conducive to wicket taking - hence the 0-0.

No, it wasn't - but Vaas had one of his poor series, Murali was nullified and clearly didn't have one of his better either, and none of the other bowlers on either side are very good.
And don't understimate the significance of Fleming being missed on 121 in his 274* either.

 

[Mingster]

No, it wasn't - but Vaas had one of his poor series, Murali was nullified and clearly didn't have one of his better either, and none of the other bowlers on either side are very good.

Murali was nullified because of good batting by Fleming and Richardson and co.

So now you are just making excuses for every bowler in the SL side. Want me to make an excuse for Bond as well? :rolleyes:

And don't understimate the significance of Fleming being missed on 121 in his 274* either.

He was dropped, yes. But that's cricket. You aren't going to go through all of the New Zealanders' innings and point out missed chances are you?

 

[PY]

You aren't going to go through all of the New Zealanders' innings and point out missed chances are you?

*ahem*

Just you wait. :saint:

 

[Mingster]

He has done it consistently enough to average 26.something at home.
Still a little disappointing given the ability I consider he has, but not bad compared to most bowlers around ATM. Few are good enough to average under 27.
And he does it by bowling everything, as I have said many times. He might be inconsistent, but when he's bowling like he can he's unplayable in any conditions.

Vaas averages 27.32 at home and over 32.90 abroad.

Tuffey can be unplayable in any conditions as well with his consistent line-and-length as well as Bond.

When you mean 'few are good enough' to average under 27. You mean any bowlers or what? Because many pace bowlers manage to average 27.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

Vaas averages 27.32 at home and over 32.90 abroad.

Tuffey can be unplayable in any conditions as well with his consistent line-and-length as well as Bond.

When you mean 'few are good enough' to average under 27. You mean any bowlers or what? Because many pace bowlers manage to average 27.

yeah,Tuffey has to be one of the most consistent good line and length bowler in the world.But,batsmen who can get used to the line andlength can hit him easily.But the goodp art is tuffey (or bond at the other end)usually gets the batsmen out first!

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

Regarding the bond issue(I dont care if its been settled,I just wanna say this):

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONALS

Batting: M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
27 13 6 122 31* 17.42 84.72 0 0 8 0

and,the more important Bowling:

O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
228.2 28 969 51 19.00 6-23 3 2 26.8 4.24

thats an absaloute horrible record isnt it :rolleyes:

he has to be swinging his deliverys.Bonds in-swinging 153 kph yorkers are near unplayable.

 

[Mingster]

yeah,Tuffey has to be one of the most consistent good line and length bowler in the world.But,batsmen who can get used to the line andlength can hit him easily.

Oh and that's the reason for McGrath's impeccable record...

 

[anzac]

Ah it's OK.

I'm, sure the likes of Southern Man will have patience on you!

It's really easy, because none of the pace bowlers in NZ are even fast-medium, most are just medium-fast.

Auckland
Kerry Walmsley RMF
Kyle Mills RMF
Andre Adams RFM
Tama Canning RM
Paul Hitchcock RMF
Brooke Walker RLB
Aaron Barnes RM

Northern Disrticts
Ian Butler RF
Daryl Tuffey RMF
Graeme Aldridge RMF
Joseph Yovich RMF
Scott Styris RMF
Daniel Vettori SLA
Matt Hart SLA
Bruce Martin SLA


Central Districts
Michael Mason RMF
Lance Hamilton LMF
Brent Hefford RMF
Andrew Schwass RMF
Jacob Oram RMF
Richard Sherlock RF
Campell Furlong ROB
Glen Suzlberger ROB


Canterbury
Shane Bond RF
Chris Martin RFM
Warren Wisneski RMF
Stephen Cunis RM
Chris Cairns RMF
Chris Harris RSM
Paul Wiseman ROB


Otago
Brad Scott LFM
Neil Rushton LMF
James McMillan RFM
Nathan McCullum ROB
Nathan Morland ROB

great info mate.............and much appreciated.......

can you do me a favor & include Wellington & we have the spread on the field,

then if it's not too much trouble could you indicate who swings the ball as their primary delivery as opposed to being seam movement..........

and if you're in a really accomodating mood you could then do the same sort of thing for me regarding the batsmen....aggressive / defensive / moderate etc............

then I'll have some better idea of whom I'm looking at in the stats & lineups etc........

:saint:

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

he has to be swinging his deliverys.Bonds in-swinging 153 kph yorkers are near unplayable.

We don't know how he will come out of this injury. Don't count your chickens...

 

[Richard]

Regarding the bond issue(I dont care if its been settled,I just wanna say this):

ONE-DAY INTERNATIONALS

Batting: M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
27 13 6 122 31* 17.42 84.72 0 0 8 0

and,the more important Bowling:

O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
228.2 28 969 51 19.00 6-23 3 2 26.8 4.24

thats an absaloute horrible record isnt it :rolleyes:

he has to be swinging his deliverys.Bonds in-swinging 153 kph yorkers are near unplayable.

What has this to do with anything?
When on this thread has anyone disputed Bond's ability in the one-day game?

 

[Richard]

Vaas averages 27.32 at home and over 32.90 abroad.

Tuffey can be unplayable in any conditions as well with his consistent line-and-length as well as Bond.

When you mean 'few are good enough' to average under 27. You mean any bowlers or what? Because many pace bowlers manage to average 27.

Total rubbish. Tuffey can be unplayable in seaming, swinging conditions but no way in non seaming, swinging conditions. You just have to look at his home\away record to note that.
Line and length does NOT make someone unplayable. Movement, combined with as much pace, bounce and accuracy as possible, does. Without movement no-one is that difficult to play.
How many bowlers currently playing Test-cricket have averages under 27? McGrath, Pollock, Warne, Muralitharan, Gillespie, to name a few. There are probably a few more; if someone would name them I would be greatful. And DON'T mention Anthony McGrath!