*Official** New Zealand in England

[anzac]

what's the traditional weather like in England at the time of the tour ?

what are the pitches usually like?

what is the likely size of the Tour squad - 14 or 16?

 

[Dick Rockett]

what is the likely size of the Tour squad - 14 or 16?

I think the size of a tour squad is limited to 14 at any one time. It's mostly to do with the expense to the hosting nation of paying for the visitors' accommodation, travel, etc.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

what are the pitchs like over in England?

last series between England and NZ was AMAZING.NZ won the O.D.I series and drew the test series.Astle and Thorpe were phenomenal.But england don't have thorpe now

as far as I know...or did he only quit tests?

enlighten me.

 

[Craig]

Have you been in Colombia lately?

Thorpe came back last year against Langevelt's hero's South Africa at The Oval.

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

Have you been in Colombia lately?

Thorpe came back last year against Langevelt's hero's South Africa at The Oval.

okay then.

Maybe Trescothick will show us (the Kiwis)that he can actually score runs against tuffey.He didn't exactly get hundreds of runs in englands last tour of NZ

 

[Neil Pickup]

Have you been in Colombia lately?

And you've never said anything daft? Give him a bit of slack...

Pitches are hugely unpredictable. Can be like NZ's bowlers' paradises - not recently however. They've been in between-ish and flat at times and tend to take spin as the season progresses, however I except seam to dominate the NZ tour.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

okay then.

Maybe Trescothick will show us (the Kiwis)that he can actually score runs against tuffey.He didn't exactly get hundreds of runs in englands last tour of NZ

As you say, that was in New Zealand. This is in England - big difference.

 

[marc71178]

Have you been in Colombia lately?

No, you're confusing him with Liam...

 

[anzac]

Bond performed well over in India.

??????

 

[anzac]

I suggest you check the archives:
New Zealand v India, 2002\03, First Test
New Zealand v India, 2002\03, Second Test .

some of our other posters should take note that this is a far more friendly way of politely advising someone that they were in error regarding their post.........

not by posting in capitals and call it crap - eh Southernman !!!!

:P

 

[anzac]

Pitches are hugely unpredictable. Can be like NZ's bowlers' paradises - not recently however. They've been in between-ish and flat at times and tend to take spin as the season progresses, however I except seam to dominate the NZ tour.

they used to be great for seam & swing - until I saw the series V RSA where they were 'dead' tracks.........

how much bounce have they got in them??????

I'm just trying to get some background on what the bowling conditions are likely to be re considering a potential bowling attack...........ie pace, seam / swing, spin, short / full pitched, along / into the deck, right or left arm over........

 

[PY]

I would say bounce is usually fairly good but tending to get erratic towards the ends of Test matches. However Trent Bridge was like that from the start.

The Oval will always be good for getting bounce if you put the effort in.

 

[anzac]

I would say bounce is usually fairly good but tending to get erratic towards the ends of Test matches. However Trent Bridge was like that from the start.

The Oval will always be good for getting bounce if you put the effort in.

so Tuffey & Oram can still be effective with no seam movement as they both bang it into the pitch & get bounce - & on pitches that already have good bounce............

 

[Richard]

Per day for the West Indies.

Even the best of sides appear to be dropping more catches now than in the recent past.

You think so too?

Finally, someone else has accepted it!

 

[Richard]

He isnt fast enough to beat batsmen for sheer pace

Then he's in a majority of everyone.
Good batsmen don't get beaten by pace alone. They used to play more poor strokes against it than they do now, because they didn't have sufficient protective equipment, but now that's been rectified, 95 mph pace alone doesn't take many wickets any more.

 

[Richard]

Depends how you look at it. Certainly at the Basin Reserve test, which I attended, Bond was swinging the ball for his wickets, which has nothing to do with the pitch. The one that got Dravid was poetry!

In which case it is likely that he will become a good Test bowler.
But on the evidence of 2 good series' and 2 bad ones, he can't yet be called such.

 

[PY]

so Tuffey & Oram can still be effective with no seam movement as they both bang it into the pitch & get bounce - & on pitches that already have good bounce............

Yeah, it may be my memory distorting over time but I don't remember there being much swing movement except in very helpful conditions so therefore seam movement is a priority. That's why we need Caddick back in my book.

Also, I don't seem to remember pitches (except The Oval) playing true. This may sound strange but they were lifeless yet there was always a chance of something strange happening. Other people will be better placed because a lot has happened to me since then so memory has faded.

 

[Richard]

That's one way of looking at it, but is not always the case.

Daniel Vettori, for example, was selected for NZ after only 2 FC games. Raw, but he was certainly international standard.

Ian Butler, on the other hand, is raw and not even FC standard, IMO.

Swings and roundabouts I guess...

If you mean by "raw" that they haven't played much top-level cricket then that's fine.
Some people seem to mean something different by "raw", but still those who can come into Test-cricket with very little First-Class success behind them (or ODIs with very little List-A success) are very rare indeed.
Tendulkar and Imran are two such examples. Vettori is another.
I certainly agree that Butler's for New Zealand is a baffling selection.

 

[Richard]

As for his failed series, the first was his debut series, against Australia, in Australia. he was selected out of nowhere and was hardly prepared to play the best side in the world at home.

Not everyone can pull a "Lou Vincent" on debut.

Excusable, possibly, but still it must be counted.
Especially when the pattern was mirrored in Sri Lanka.

 

[Richard]

English wickets in the last 2 years:
Lord's v SL: no seam, no real turn, very good even bounce throughout the game.
Edgbaston v SL: almost exactly the same for most of the game, except it started damp, and was uneven and seaming for the first couple of sessions. England were fortunate in that they won the toss.
Old Trafford v SL: mirror of the Lord's pitch again.
Lord's v India: almost the same as the SL game, became a bit uneven, oddly, for some of the third and fourth days, then flattened out again. Very unusual. But again nothing for the seamers.
Trent Bridge v India: yet another one that mirrored the others; it was somewhat misunderstood because there was quite a bit of swing throughout the match.
Headingley v India: there was some seam and a hint of uneven bounce throughout the game. Generally it was better for batting than Headingley wickets usually are but very poor bowling played it's part in the scores matching the rest of the summer.
The Oval v India: as per usual, even better for batting than the rest. That's tricky, but possible.
Lord's v Zim: again, good even bounce throughout, but some seam also. Perfect English wicket, really.
The Riverside v Zim: almost exactly the same as Lord's, though there was a bit of unevenness.
Edgbaston v SA: another that basically mirrored the wickets of last summer.
Lord's v SA: another like the Zimbabwe game, but the seam lasted for just a day or so.
Trent Bridge v SA: a pile of rubbish, somehow the game lasted 5 days; uneven, moving sideways, all because of the cracks. Opened alarmingly from day two.
Headingley v SA: not much better, and much worse than last year. Similar to the 2000 (61ao, 2-day) game, except the bowling was worse and the batting a bit better.
The Oval v SA: just like the wicket last year.
Almost all English wickets offer pace and bounce more than that typical to the subcontinent and West Indies, and slightly less than that typical to South Africa.
But remember: no wicket offers pace and bounce significant to enable bowlers to "bounce" batsmen out - batsmen are too good for that nowadays.
English weather, like your own, is very unpredictable - in 2002, it was terrible, some of the worst on record, and in 2003 it was some of the best. However, the amount of swing achieved had definately diminished; not to say no-one could bowl it, as plenty did, but cloud-cover hasn't been seen as much in the last 2 seasons (somehow the Tests escaped a lot in 2002) as I'd like to see it. 2000 wasn't terrible weather-wise (it wasn't great), but the Tests were attended by very overcast weather for most of the summer.
I still hope we see all wickets resembling those for the Lord's Zimbabwe Test again, as soon as possible. Seam-movement should be available, not too much of it, but for as long as possible. I also like to see cloud-cover in place as much as possible - it might seem strange, but I value swing assistance more than heat.
It is, however, anyone's guess what 2004 will hold.