*Official** New Zealand in England

[tooextracool]

Another England failure giving a bit of tap to New Zealand's bowling attack. Robert Key with 100* from 111 balls with 18 fours.

Willing to bet the NZ bowlers are on the money for the Tests though.

ok robert key's just putting water all over graeme hicks innings....
i think the NZ bowlers are just saving all their tricks for england just like warne used to

 

[Loony BoB]

And Key's out... finally. >_>;;

This should be interesting... Jones in to make his statement about which wicky should be representing the poms.

 

[tooextracool]

And Key's out... finally. >_>;;

This should be interesting... Jones in to make his statement about which wicky should be representing the poms.

which jones?

 

[Loony BoB]

GO Jones - are there other wicketkeepers for Kent who have the last name Jones? xD

 

[PY]

Nope. Doing OK for himself as well.

 

[anzac]

you would feel comfortable going in with 3 frontline bowlers and cairns? no real variety in that attack that a shane bond or vettori could bring. styris to be honest with you cant bowl for toffee and cairns is far past his prime.

I agree with what you are saying about variety & options, but I don't think Bond is ready yet, and I don't want 5 specialist bowlers (esp with 2 allrounders in the team), as I believe that 4 specialists should be able to do the job.............and I believe you need 6 batsmen to post a decent total if you want to 'advance the game'...........hell I didn't agree with the squad of 14 so far as options / variety goes but we're stuck with it now...............

Tuffey & Martin form your 'strike' attack with Oram & Cairns as your change seamers (hopefully they will all carry on where they left off v RSA - which means Cairns taking wickets in the lower order)...........Styris becomes your 5th seamer to bowl his outswing or to have a go at his off spin on day 5ish..........I'm not sure if Astle is going to bowl again.............

I didn't agree with Vettori's selection in the squad & as I've said earlier I'd only pick a spin bowler in ENG at this time of year if the pitch was going to help them - if it's 'normal' at this early spring / summer then it is likely to still be 'fresh' & more beneficial to seam / swing than spin..........if the weather was going to be overcast I'd even consider Mills ahead of Vettori..............

but I also said that I expect them to pick 5 including Vettori...............

 

[anzac]

I know papps is a 'real' opener but I really want NZ to win this series. Its great that he is a player for the future but beating england in england will really give NZ cricket the respect it deserves and we need a full strength team for that - not 10 players plus a junior.
CaM

too late - we already beat them in ENG on the last tour there................we're now going for back to back away series wins..............

no disrespect to the ENG bowling attack, but IMO the RSA bowling attack is a lot tougher on paper & if they had any doubts about his ability to make the grade they would have picked another opener as cover..........

hang on they have got another option other than Fleming - McCullum opens with Papps for Canterbury in the State Championship...........how curious - Papps covers the 'keeper & McCullum covers the Opener..........& they are State team mates.........

there's the joker in the pack for you..........allows for both Astle & McMillan to play..........

 

[anzac]

Standard tactics for New Zealand - try to stifle, grind out draws then go in for the kill in one game and win the series 1-0.

Classic.

yeah but I feel that Fleming & Bracewell are trying to change that philosophy re their 'advance the game' theory.............

 

[anzac]

Yep, harsh but fair!

A friend of mine also thinks we should be ultra-conservative in this series, batting McCullum at 9 and Vettori at 10.

He says in football terms this would put 'too many men in the box' for a team like England to penetrate. Once the Harmisons and co. realise their work still isn't done at 8 down, they'll start haemorrhaging runs to our lower-order like they always do.

We then boot long balls to our striker (Martin, maybe Bond later on) to steal a victory. We then hammer England and the Windies in the ODIs and call it a very successful tour!

Richardson, Papps, Fleming, Styris, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, McCullum, Vettori, Martin.............

I don't see that as being ultra conservative - 6 specialist batsmen, 'keeper & 4 bowlers - the difference is 2 of those being allrounders.............

I want 6 batsmen so as to be able to ATTACK the bowling - not to grind them down.................with the extra batsman to provide depth so we don't have to go into our shells & rebuild or change strategy if we loose 2 - 3 quick wickets ..............

 

[Loony BoB]

Richardson, Papps, Fleming, Styris, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, McCullum, Vettori, Martin.............

I don't see that as being ultra conservative - 6 specialist batsmen, 'keeper & 4 bowlers - the difference is 2 of those being allrounders.............

I want 6 batsmen so as to be able to ATTACK the bowling - not to grind them down.................with the extra batsman to provide depth so we don't have to go into our shells & rebuild or change strategy if we loose 2 - 3 quick wickets ..............

It's an interesting idea, however we have to keep in mind that with only one specialist seam bowler, we'll have to be bloody good to stop ENGLAND from griding a game into a draw, too. It's not all about getting quick runs when the opposition has the potential to hang around for three days with the bat.

At least with Cairns retiring from test cricket soon, the selectors will have one less player to pick from. xD I can't remember when we last had this kind of problem.

 

[Kent]

I want 6 batsmen so as to be able to ATTACK the bowling - not to grind them down.................with the extra batsman to provide depth so we don't have to go into our shells & rebuild or change strategy if we loose 2 - 3 quick wickets ..............

Unfortunately we saw how well that ATTACK went this morning!

I'm starting to be a bit more concerned about our bowling though. I'm wondering if a purple patch by Martin has covered up how ordinary we really are when conditions aren't fresh and green.

People like Ashley Ross and the UK media have put far too much expectation on Bond IMO. Remember how ordinary Cairns was back in December when he was coming back from a long time on the sidelines? Remember how he was exactly the same when we toured Oz?

Somehow people expect Shane Bond to add 20kph to that, forget about his altered action and knock the Poms over. Look at the high wicket-taker odds on cricinfo, for example. If I was Cairns or Vettori, I'd feel embarrassed as senior bowlers that this is the perception.

 

[Neil Pickup]

From a biased English perspective, I'd like to see NZ go into the game with the top-heavy batting lineups and weak/samey bowling attacks you have all talked of. You've not troubled rejects Hick and even Robert Key.

I've seen it too often that England have done the same and it's backfired.

Looking at the current bowling stats:
Tuffey 1-47; Martin 1-51; Bond 0-57; Cairns 1-44; Vettori 1-63 & Styris 0-26

My confidence is building - I think England to win the series, but it'll be tight. It'll come down to the crunch passages of play as it did in the West Indies.

 

[tooextracool]

From a biased English perspective, I'd like to see NZ go into the game with the top-heavy batting lineups and weak/samey bowling attacks you have all talked of. You've not troubled rejects Hick and even Robert Key.

I've seen it too often that England have done the same and it's backfired.

Looking at the current bowling stats:
Tuffey 1-47; Martin 1-51; Bond 0-57; Cairns 1-44; Vettori 1-63 & Styris 0-26

My confidence is building - I think England to win the series, but it'll be tight. It'll come down to the crunch passages of play as it did in the West Indies.

ive seen worse play by a visiting team before in the warm ups and yet end up beating england to a pulp. yes i am talking about australia.

 

[tooextracool]

And Key's out... finally. >_>;;

This should be interesting... Jones in to make his statement about which wicky should be representing the poms.

i really do hope jones starts ahead of read.....im quite certain that read's technique is not upto test match standard

 

[Neil Pickup]

i really do hope jones starts ahead of read.....im quite certain that read's technique is not upto test match standard

Jones will start barring injury. I guarantee it

 

[Tim]

How many times have teams done averagely in warm-up matches and then played well in the tests?

If you haven't played a high level of cricket you don't realise that when you get into the higher level of matches you lift your game much further. That was definately the case with me & indoor cricket for Auckland & from speaking to other former players too.

NZ did the exact same thing against 2 Indian sides last year when they struggled to bowl them out & also score a decent amount of runs and in the end they played pretty well against India, so im not too concerned at all.

NZ are notoriously bad for starting badly in warm-ups which also leads into the test series where they find themselves fighting for draws early on & then starting to play well at the end of a series.

Against the Indian Presidents XI last year, the Indian side were 227/1 when rain ruined the match.
Against India 'A' they scored 375/7 dec but then allowed India 'A' to score 403. NZ then replied with 68/4 in the second dig.
What I found interesting was that both McMillan & Astle failed big time against those 2 sides but when they came up against India they averaged 237 & 86 respectively overall for the series.

So as usual it seems the same things are happening against the warm-up sides in England.

 

[Kent]

IMO the difference is that the competition for places is more intense for a NZ test side than it has ever been.

You may be right Tim, but if I struggle to see why guys like Martin, Vettori and McMillan would be complacent, even subconsciously. If I was them I'd be looking at this game as a test match against a new 11th nation, and I'm aiming to make it impossible for the selectors to dump me. Papps and Rigger got a bagging from the English press, but at least they both made important statements.

If anything I'd have thought nerves were a more likely cause for poor results, rather than not finding enough inspiration to lift their game.

 

[Tim]

As you know Kent...McMillan only performs when he REALLY has to.
He probably thought his 86 against Worc's was good enough and that he didn't need to score runs against Kent.

Vettori hasn't been performing since I can remember so I didn't really expect him to suddenly turn it on against Kent...there's no other spinner in the squad so surely he's not motivated by competition.

Martin has been disappointing..but this is the problem with selecting a few guys making their way back from injury. Before the warm-ups began there was huge pressure on Martin to perform as it was unlikely that Bond would be available for the 1st test.

 

[marc71178]

With the talk about the team not performing that well, I woud've thought that with the make-up of the 11 for Thursday by no means certain, the ones who are the borderline should be trying doubly hard!

 

[Tim]

Certainly Papps has been the winner in this match so far...there's no doubt he's in contention with McMillan for the 1st test. I think NZ will push McMillan up to #3 in their 2nd innings and how he performs then will decide his fate for the next 2 weeks.

Martin & Bond have been disappointing but the selectors are confined to selecting 1 of these players because Mills has not played a game so far.

I think the selectors will be 90% certain on the side..they're probably just hoping that tonight/today Martin or Bond suddenly take 4 or 5 wickets & make their job easier.