*Official** New Zealand in England

[Neil Pickup]

which one????? - and that's not to belittle the ZIM post.......

This is the first time since I started following cricket as "religiously" as I do now that England have really had a bowler that I can make that kind of comment about with even a hint of seriousness

 

[anzac]

This is the first time since I started following cricket as "religiously" as I do now that England have really had a bowler that I can make that kind of comment about with even a hint of seriousness

much the same for us re Bond since post Hadlee & injured Cairns...............

 

[Neil Pickup]

much the same for us re Bond since post Hadlee & injured Cairns...............

Difference being, Harmison's actually good

 

[Loony BoB]

Difference being, Harmison's actually good

Hoo hoo, they's fighting words, they are!

 

[marc71178]

martin and oram should tear up on the green seamers

Oram has only really got good figures in 1 series (the farce pitches) - aside from that his record is ordinary.

And I thought the coach said Tuffey was the first pick?

 

[marc71178]

We can watch Martin lookalikes day in, day out on the county circuit.

Don't you love the way the English cricket writers can write someone off after seeing a couple of spells!

And that hasn't stopped Kiwi's writing our players off?

I can see where he's coming from - County Cricket has a lot of bowlers that will take wickets in CC, but are nowhere near Test-class. Obviously Martin's action reminds him of them.

 

[Langeveldt]

Just kidding of course. Apparently this Kadeer Ali chap is absolute p*ss.

Ask chris hinton

 

[cbuts]

i certinaly wouldnt have tuffey as no.1 he is better than oram, but oram is such a good batter. martin and bond would deffenatly be my number 1 opening pair, and oram is the best all rounder in thw world, u poms underrate him at ur peril

 

[marc71178]

Doesn't an all-rounder have to be good with the ball?

The debut series aside, Oram isn't.

 

[Neil Pickup]

i certinaly wouldnt have tuffey as no.1 he is better than oram, but oram is such a good batter. martin and bond would deffenatly be my number 1 opening pair, and oram is the best all rounder in thw world, u poms underrate him at ur peril

Conveniently forgetting Kallis and Pollock..

I smell terraces.

 

[Smudge]

Doesn't an all-rounder have to be good with the ball?

New Zealand in Sri Lanka: He averaged 35.5 with the bat and and 29 with the ball

New Zealand in India: (from one test) Averaged 6 with the bat and 67 with the ball

Pakistan in New Zealand: Averaged 43 with bat and 27.6 with ball

South Africa in New Zealand: Averaged 94.33 with bat and 36.57 with ball.

Aside from the series in India (since it is OK for you to remove his debut series), I would think his bowling would fall into the "good" category.

 

[Kent]

And that hasn't stopped Kiwi's writing our players off?

I can see where he's coming from - County Cricket has a lot of bowlers that will take wickets in CC, but are nowhere near Test-class. Obviously Martin's action reminds him of them.

Marc, I think Kiwi cricket fans are pretty worldly these days to be honest. If an English seamer came here fresh from 3 consecutive five-fers against SA, I'd like to think we'd give him more than a couple of 10º days in Timaru to prove himself.

If I was writing for a 6 or 7-figure readership, there's no way I'd feel comfortable judging someone on first impressions of their action alone. If Pollock and McGrath didn't have famous faces, would they instantly look out of place at a local club ground to these writers?

 

[Kent]

Just as an aside, it's interesting how obsessed the UK media are with x-factor athletes. A bit like Jonah in the past, every story I've come across is Bond this, Bond that.

"Surely they won't leave out Jonah!" they used to cry. And he usually lifted his game for England, despite the serious health issues that are only now coming to light.

Perhaps Bond will thrive in a similar manner. It can't be easy on England sides when you've got an endless stream of headlines portraying one of your opponents as God's gift.

 

[Tim]

Those figures in India for Oram look poor, but if you look at the overall context of that series..i think Daryl Tuffey ended up averaging the best out of the 2 teams with 28 or something, which isn't overally terrific.

That series was a batsmans series, Oram failed with the bat also which he'll be most disappointed about im sure.

As usual Marc, you're out with the knives forgetting that Oram has only played a year of test cricket so far. Infact I reckon Oram has bowled some great spells at times and been unlucky not to take a wicket..something you've stressed time & time again with Flintoff Marc.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Aside from the series in India (since it is OK for you to remove his debut series), I would think his bowling would fall into the "good" category.

I’d say it comes in the ‘distinctly average’ category.

 

[Tim]

If that's the case, then Flintoff is 'distinctly poor'. And if you argue that he's been unlucky because he's bowled good spells for little reward, then the same could be said about Oram. I presume though, that we're discussing test cricket alone.

It's a bias debate that's going nowhere..let's just see how they go in this series.

 

[meatspx]

Oram lost his bowling control during the Indian test series and TVS cup.

In regards to batting he scored a first-class hundred and smashed 80 in a ODI against the Aussies.

 

[Tim]

There's no doubt Oram struggled on that tour, but for several reasons:

a) he struggled after he sustained an injury in the 1st test
b) he was opening the bowling in the ODI's which is clearly not where he should be bowling
c) team morale must have been low during the ODI's especially after a couple of poor losses...im sure as a bowler you would have no confidence when you see Chris Nevin, Lou Vincent etc going out to bat and with a batting tail starting at 6 or 7.

Having said that..cricket is a professional game & you get paid well so you are expected to perform often enough to justify that pay, regardless of what barriers you come across.
But I thought Oram made up for it in the home series v Pakistan & South Africa..he now needs to show he can perform overseas starting with England.

 

[marc71178]

Aside from the series in India (since it is OK for you to remove his debut series), I would think his bowling would fall into the "good" category.

I removed that series because it was a freak of nature on those wickets.

Apart from that he averages in the mid-30s...

 

[tooextracool]

Conveniently forgetting Kallis and Pollock.

would pollock make it into the test side on his batting alone?or would kallis make it into the side on his bowling alone?
those arent genuine all rounders, they are bowlers who can bat a bit and vice versa,not genuine all rounders...i dont care how exceptional kallis' batting has been, if he doesnt get enough wickets,hes not an all rounder.