*Official* New Zealand in Bangladesh Thread

[tooextracool]

i would call anyone whos averaged less than 30 at the top of the order as a miserable failure. most players need to average around 35 odd IMO to be a certainity in the side.

 

[Macka]

I don't think so, he averages 29. If he averaged 1 more would he be 'miserable'? He has been in and out of the team and played 2/5 of his games in NZ - where the pitches aren't great. I'm not saying he's a great ODI batsman, admittedly he is pretty average, just not that bad.

If you look at the NZ side two people average around 35 - Astle and Marshall, with Fleming around 32.

 

[shaka]

What about Mcmillan? his average is pretty good.

 

[Tim]

Miserable is a fairly harsh word to use. You'd be better off saying 'average' and then i'd agree with you.

 

[anzac]

i would call anyone whos averaged less than 30 at the top of the order as a miserable failure. most players need to average around 35 odd IMO to be a certainity in the side.

Sinclair averages 31 opening (22 ODIs) & 28 @ #3 (14 ODIs)..........
Astle averages 35 (164) & 48 (8) respectively,
Fleming averages 33 opening (57), 34 @ #3 (62) & 33 @ #4 (81).......

so he's not totally out of the mix in comparison to the current pairing..........hence my wondering if they'd consider him opening or @ #3 when the ball is coming onto the bat, rather than down the order where he will have to make the pace from the start, with Marshall & Styris dropping to 4 & 5 respectively to round out the batsmen.............

 

[anzac]

What about Mcmillan? his average is pretty good.

his career OD average is only 27 - not nearly good enough for a player with a Test average of 40...........although admittedly since the WC his average has been amongst the best for the side in each series with the BAN series being his worst performance since the WC..............

however my main complaint with Macca is with his mental approach to the game - the number of times he throws his wicket away with some daft shot b4 he's properly in.............the reverse sweep is one danger sign, as is the flick over the top of the 'keeper..............

 

[shaka]

I have never seen Macca do that, only McCullum (in his early days). The reason with NZ's lowish averages is that they are not dominated by one player, but rather have a whole team who can produce when it is needed.

 

[anzac]

I have never seen Macca do that, only McCullum (in his early days). The reason with NZ's lowish averages is that they are not dominated by one player, but rather have a whole team who can produce when it is needed.

I thought I'd seen him attempt it a couple of times on the ENG tour...........
Richie Benaud even mentioned it in commentary for the SA / QLD OD match last weekend when a SA batsman started to do the same.........

I agree with your analogy of the team batting & Braces has even said so himself.............(it's a pity the Test team plays the same way)....but if it can be improved upon then we should...............

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think so, he averages 29. If he averaged 1 more would he be 'miserable'?
He has been in and out of the team and played 2/5 of his games in NZ - where the pitches aren't great. I'm not saying he's a great ODI batsman, admittedly he is pretty average, just not that bad.

If you look at the NZ side two people average around 35 - Astle and Marshall, with Fleming around 32

ok, so he was 1 run away from being an average player.....that says a lot does it? whatever it was he still hasnt done anything in ODIs to make him anything but a failure.

 

[tooextracool]

Sinclair averages 31 opening (22 ODIs) & 28 @ #3 (14 ODIs)..........
Astle averages 35 (164) & 48 (8) respectively,
Fleming averages 33 opening (57), 34 @ #3 (62) & 33 @ #4 (81).......

so he's not totally out of the mix in comparison to the current pairing..........hence my wondering if they'd consider him opening or @ #3 when the ball is coming onto the bat, rather than down the order where he will have to make the pace from the start, with Marshall & Styris dropping to 4 & 5 respectively to round out the batsmen.............

fleming was for a very long period of his career an extremely average ODI player. however he has off late developed in both form of the games and has finally started living up to his potential.

 

[Mingster]

i wouldnt exactly put sinclair in there as though hes a certainty.he has only been a miserable failure in ODIs so far......

Who else would you have at 5 instead of Sinclair?

Your buddy Harris? Fulton? Vincent? Or McMillan?

 

[tooextracool]

Who else would you have at 5 instead of Sinclair?

Your buddy Harris? Fulton? Vincent? Or McMillan?

i dont know anything about fulton, i dont rate mcmillan. from what ive seen of vincent i havent been too impressed. that leaves harris and sinclair and unless sinclair has been brilliant in domestic cricket lately, i would go for harris ahead of him.

 

[Kent]

I was always hopeful that when they did drop McMillan, Ryder or Taylor would be ready to add the middle-order thrust that Macca is supposedly in our OD side for. Unfortunately one went off the rails and the other still seems too raw, so I guess I'd go with Sinclair.

In fairness to TEC - the thing that perhaps clouds my judgement of Harris is how frustrating he is to watch when he's out of form and shuffling around. There are other guys who just nick one early and don't infuriate me, even if they spend the rest of the day adding less to the team's cause than Harris can in at least 1 of his 3 disciplines.

Sometimes I'll see the bald head and the prodding around and think "retire!" - despite guys like Lara and Warne being older. I might not pick Harris for every game ATM, but I'm glad he's one of the few Kiwi players who's still offering us his services in his mid 30's.

 

[Tim]

Sinclair did score 268 recently against South Africa 'A'.....

Surely against Sri Lanka in January, the selectors could find room for Peter Fulton in the middle order?

 

[anzac]

i dont know anything about fulton, i dont rate mcmillan. from what ive seen of vincent i havent been too impressed. that leaves harris and sinclair and unless sinclair has been brilliant in domestic cricket lately, i would go for harris ahead of him.

what about another option - instead of replacing Harris @ #5 - how about just replacing him with another batsman...........

IMO Sinclair is a Top Order batsman, not middle order - why not play him higher up the order & drop everyone down a notch...............eg

Fleming, Astle, Sinclair, Marshall, Styris..............or even Open with him & play Astle @ #3.................or #5...............potentially devastating..............

and yes Sinclair finished ahead of Harris in the State Shield last year re total runs - but Harris had him covered re their respective averages.............

sorry but on batting alone I'd take Sinclair over Harris any day nowadays...........

 

[anzac]

Sometimes I'll see the bald head and the prodding around and think "retire!" - despite guys like Lara and Warne being older. I might not pick Harris for every game ATM, but I'm glad he's one of the few Kiwi players who's still offering us his services in his mid 30's.

If they are older it can't be by much..............and we are talking about players who are at the top of their speciality - something that Harris can not lay claim to...............

his current batting average is 29, not a bad effort. However, in the 24 ODI series this decade he has matched or bettered this average in only 8 series.......he has scored 1x50 since the WIN tour in NZL 01/02.............

 

[anzac]

having just said all that I must say that I honestly do not expect to see any changes to the Test / ODI teams this season unless forced thru injury etc........

I fully expect the selectors to stick to the tried & true v AUS both HOme & Away - to important to start experimenting now.........and with SRL coming here, playing on domestic pitches is what our guys do best & will especially suit the likes of Harris & Macca...............

so I expect to see both of them in the BC for both Home series at least........

 

[bryce]

I fully expect the selectors to stick to the tried & true v AUS both HOme & Away - to important to start experimenting now.........and with SRL coming here, playing on domestic pitches is what our guys do best & will especially suit the likes of Harris & Macca...............

so I expect to see both of them in the BC for both Home series at least........

i predict harris will be dropped for the aussie ODI series, if not from the squad then from the starting XI

 

[tooextracool]

and yes Sinclair finished ahead of Harris in the State Shield last year re total runs - but Harris had him covered re their respective averages.............

sorry but on batting alone I'd take Sinclair over Harris any day nowadays...........

what about domestic averages last year, who had the higher average?

 

[anzac]

what about domestic averages last year, who had the higher average?

that's what I was referring to when I said that Harris had him covered - it means that Harris had the higher average in the OD game...........as he didn't play in the longer game last season - can't make it into the Cant State side.......