*Official* New Zealand in Bangladesh Thread

[marc71178]

but neither recently with any surety.................

That was my point - I really don't see Astle as a better bowling option than Harris.

Astle is pure marmite.

 

[Kent]

NZ really look dis-interested in this match...Sinclair & Astle are searching for anything to smash but so far the Bangladeshi bowlers have been good.

Did anyone see Mark Richardson's article in the Herald today? I wouldn't be surprised if the NZC docked some of his pay..it was a bizarre piece of writing.

Absolutely. I thought Richardson was one of the good guys, but by the time I'd finished reading that article I almost wanted him and the rest of the BCs to get utterly demolished in Australia.

While the English team were absorbing a different culture and playing their part as ambassadors, it seems all the BCs want to do is stay in their hotels and watch pirated DVDs of whatever.

I could already kind of tell that guys like Harmison, Flintoff and Strauss are guys I'd much rather have as mates, and if I was born in a non-test nation I definitely wouldn't feel any reason to support many NZ cricketers. A lot of them seem like very bland, 'white-bread' personalities to me.

I was reading the other day that McMillan's genuine favourite music is Britney Spears, Eminem and Robbie Williams....it's not Bangladesh that's boring to tour I'm afraid - it's that you're a squad full of boring people!

 

[Smudge]

Absolutely. I thought Richardson was one of the good guys, but by the time I'd finished reading that article I almost wanted him and the rest of the BCs to get utterly demolished in Australia.

While the English team were absorbing a different culture and playing their part as ambassadors, it seems all the BCs want to do is stay in their hotels and watch pirated DVDs of whatever.

I could already kind of tell that guys like Harmison, Flintoff and Strauss are guys I'd much rather have as mates, and if I was born in a non-test nation I definitely wouldn't feel any reason to support many NZ cricketers. A lot of them seem like very bland, 'white-bread' personalities to me.

I was reading the other day that McMillan's genuine favourite music is Britney Spears, Eminem and Robbie Williams....it's not Bangladesh that's boring to tour I'm afraid - it's that you're a squad full of boring people!

To be fair to Richardson, I've got nothing but respect for the guy. I played a season or two of club cricket with him and he was always keen to help me out with my bowling and batting, and was hardly a 'bland' personality - in fact he was one of the funniest guys in the team.

At least he spoke his mind - even if I don't agree with much of what he said. I must say that column seemed streets different from the other ones I have read from him.

 

[anzac]

I've given it a little thought (between studying) and I this is what I would *like* to see against Sri Lanka:

Richardson
Fleming
Marshall
Sinclair
Styris
Astle
...

I very much doubt it'll happen.

Interesting that you'd still go for Flem to open after AUS - with a possible fit Papps & Co available???????

good to see you agree re 6 batsmen...........

I'd not pick Marshall at #3 - in fact until his domestic record improves I'd not have him in the team when the batsman has to make the pace.............he likes the ball coming onto the bat as per these ODI Day 3 type pitches......he's not done that well with the bat when he's had to make the pace..........I'd select him on harder pitches with more pace & bounce - but not low/slow or turning...........likewise with the likes of Vincent

& I'd not pick Sinclair for anything too green & someone else mentioned he has a weakness v spin so that means the likes of SRL, IND & PAK are doubtful.........although I'm not sure of the reasoning as he's not played in IND or PAK - only 2 innings each in BAN & SRL & he dined out v PAK when they were here in 2001??????

Personally I think they'll stick with the current lineup & 5-5 split until injury / retirement or something really drastic/dramatic happens.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that if Sinclair does open & fail v AUS then he's a sacraficial bunny & would be dropped from the SRL Tour squad to make way for Macca's return.............actually their averages are very similar both Home, Away & career.........yet not having seen Sinclair I'd say they bat nothing alike...............

 

[Kent]

To be fair to Richardson, I've got nothing but respect for the guy. I played a season or two of club cricket with him and he was always keen to help me out with my bowling and batting, and was hardly a 'bland' personality - in fact he was one of the funniest guys in the team.

At least he spoke his mind - even if I don't agree with much of what he said. I must say that column seemed streets different from the other ones I have read from him.

I've always found him likable on the TV and radio, but I just couldn't get with what he was saying in that column at all.

Putting the "let's just watch DVDs after the English team went to hospitals and disabled children's centres" attitude aside, for a team that has had trouble finishing off lower-orders I would've thought bowling to players with test averages in the 10-25 range would've been quite useful. Defeating batsmen without pitch assistance would've been another decent goal, which Butler again failed to do. Vettori getting his armball coming out better...the list goes on.

 

[anzac]

That was my point - I really don't see Astle as a better bowling option than Harris.

Astle is pure marmite.

Astle ODI bowling average = 35.9
Harris ODI bowling average = 37.4

thesedays Harris seems to get creamed the more overs he bowls - just like Cairns in the ODI series at Home last season - ok for 4 overs and then pow to the fence it goes..............

I'm probably wrong but Styris' recent bowling in ODIs & Tests does not appear to be anything like the amount of work he used to do, and kind of reminds me of the role Macca used to play with the ball - although a few more overs and a bit more effective...........but you get my meaning about a change.............

we need to look for a genuine slow seam bowler

 

[anzac]

just a small point of note / concern..............

Astle has failed with the bat this tour - no 50s in 5 innings, whereas Sinclair has 3 from 4..............

perhaps there's another possible player performance appraisal in the offering - not Astle/Marshall as was indicated b4 the tour, but Astle/Sinclair - even in a 5-5 split?????

could Astle be competing with Marshall for a start in AUS - to bad for Marshall that he's also failed with the bat in the ODIs to otherwise back up his streaky 59???? in the Test..........speaking of which, that innings may have been streaky etc, but he still managed to post a 50+ & not gift his wicket...............a lot of other guys have not done as well when so uncomfortable...........

 

[Mingster]

That was my point - I really don't see Astle as a better bowling option than Harris.

Astle is pure marmite.

Eh did I ever say that Harris was a better bowler than Astle? No. Far out you have some reading problems.

Astle and Styris would do an EQUAL or better task as containing bowlers than Harris, and they would offer more to the team as a whole and more balance to the team, allowing possibly another specialist bowler or batsman.

Anzac, I don't think Astle is under threat of losing his ODI spot. He's got off to good starts so far in the series, 3 starts in 3 games, and has built a solid opening partnership with Sinclair. Isn't it 2 x 50 partnerships in 2 games?

Surely that will be the last we ever see of McMillan and Harris in a black shirt. With Fleming and Oram stepping back into the fold.

And Anzac, although Styris has somewhat reduced the amount of bowling in Tests, he still has bowled a consistent amount of overs in ODIs. He's been the 1st or 2nd change bowler for a long time now. You shouldn't really look into Harris and Astle's bowling averages, the ER is more important, and Astle has a very respectable ER of 4.61.

 

[marc71178]

Eh did I ever say that Harris was a better bowler than Astle? No. Far out you have some reading problems.

I have reading problems, why?

I would pick Harris to bowl for me before Astle, every time - Harris is a genuine option with the ball, Astle is a filler in.

Astle and Styris would do an EQUAL or better task as containing bowlers than Harris, and they would offer more to the team as a whole and more balance to the team, allowing possibly another specialist bowler or batsman.

It's the marmite scenario then - one that proved so useless for England for so long.

 

[Mingster]

Oh dear. I said Astle AND Styris as a combination to partner Vettori in the middle-stages of an innings. Harris' bowling has not worked for a long time now, and he is still living in the memory of it. Sure he has done well against Bangladesh, which other NZ bowler hasn't?

Symcox seems to have an obsession with Harris. When he came in to bat, he said "oh Harris has a great ability to nudge the ball around for 1s and 2s....great ability in finding the gaps....oh yes he plays that little leg side nudge very well as well....he's a specialist in finishing innings'....oh he plays that cut shot very well when it's short as well".

Tell me, when was the last time Harris did a good job of finishing the innings for us? He seems to waste time when he comes in to bat in the last 10 over these days.

 

[marc71178]

Astle and Stryis = Marmite.

I'm assuming there's a reason that Astle's bowled a grand total of 2 ODI overs in the last 20 or so months?

 

[Smudge]

Astle and Stryis = Marmite.

I'm assuming there's a reason that Astle's bowled a grand total of 2 ODI overs in the last 20 or so months?

Yes - his knee injury has kept him away from the bowling crease...

 

[marc71178]

So can someone tell me how he's a viable option to replace Harris with the ball then?

 

[tooextracool]

Astle ODI bowling average = 35.9
Harris ODI bowling average = 37.4

thesedays Harris seems to get creamed the more overs he bowls - just like Cairns in the ODI series at Home last season - ok for 4 overs and then pow to the fence it goes..............

ODI bowling is more about ER than it is about averages, and i believe that harris is significantly better in that department than astle.

 

[anzac]

ODI bowling is more about ER than it is about averages, and i believe that harris is significantly better in that department than astle.

yeah I grabbed the wrong set of stats - I blame lack of sleep...........
Harris ER = 4.28
Astle ER = 4.64

IMO Harris' bowling is only effective on slow pitches - anything approaching a normal type pitch or better & he is cannon fodder to any decent batsman - and his batting has not been a contributing factor for some time & Marshall seems to be in the same sort of style of player, but having a better run of success with the bat. Hence Harris should not be an automatic starter.

On the other hand it's been so long since I saw Astle bowl - little wobbly seam up from memory.

I'd still prefer to see another player being developed.

 

[tooextracool]

and his batting has not been a contributing factor for some time & Marshall seems to be in the same sort of style of player, but having a better run of success with the bat. Hence Harris should not be an automatic starter.

To be fair, harris hasnt exactly been all that poor with the bat recently. he had a decent series against pak and an extremely good series against SA at home.
since then hes really had only 5 chances with the bat, 3 have been against b'desh, and while they have been poor, it must be said that performances against b'desh dont really show too much. the other 2 were in the natwest challenge and icc championships, he failed one while in the other against australia he did quite a good job in the situation.

 

[Mingster]

To be fair, harris hasnt exactly been all that poor with the bat recently. he had a decent series against pak and an extremely good series against SA at home.
since then hes really had only 5 chances with the bat, 3 have been against b'desh, and while they have been poor, it must be said that performances against b'desh dont really show too much. the other 2 were in the natwest challenge and icc championships, he failed one while in the other against australia he did quite a good job in the situation.

You have a very weird interpretation of what is "good" with the bat.

Harris has been extremely poor with the bat and ball recently. He's avearged 21.36 in his last 15 matches (inc TVS Cup) and only 20.83 in his last 10 (SA onwards). He's avearged over 59 with the ball as well.

Why doesn't his performances against Bangladesh not count much? He's had 3 very good chances to perform, and he has failed. If he is being selected as a batting allrounder, we might as well play Sinclair at 5 when Fleming comes back and do a straight swap with Oram for Harris.

So can someone tell me how he's (Astle) a viable option to replace Harris with the ball then?

Harris' bowling doesn't need replacing. Because he is useless with the ball these days anyway. A combination of Styris and Astle is enough for our slow bowlers, since Cairns has somewhat fallen down that track these days anyway.

So an opening attack of Tuffey and Mills, with Oram and Cairns as the change bowlers, and Styris and Vettori as our middle of the innings bowlers + Astle as backup.

 

[shaka]

Harris' fielding is really the major factor in selecting him, and his fielding partnership with Hamish Marshall. He doesnt seem to be scoring runs as freely as he used to be able to. However his bowling is still able to keep the runs down, but I think that Australia have his number and are able to dispatch him and make him an accessory.

 

[Mingster]

His fielding hasn't been that important in this series though.

I hope we don't go down the track of Vincent with Harris, in that "Vincent can save us 20 runs in the field"....

 

[tooextracool]

You have a very weird interpretation of what is "good" with the bat.

Harris has been extremely poor with the bat and ball recently. He's avearged 21.36 in his last 15 matches (inc TVS Cup) and only 20.83 in his last 10 (SA onwards).

yes he did seem to be struggling around the tvs cup time. however after that he showed signs of rectifying it. he averaged 36 against pakistan which while not brilliant is still pretty good for someone who bats as low as him. against SA he averaged 77 and scored a match winning 55 at eden park. in his only other innings that he batted in he scored an unbeaten 22 and with papps carried the team through to victory.
after that he had one bad game in the natwest series, scored a 26 against australia when the team only managed 198.

He's avearged over 59 with the ball as well.

how many times do i have to say it? average is not what matters in ODIs, its the ER. Harris has never been a wicket taking bowler, hes been economical. and interestingly enough he has the best ER in the entire side.....which means his ER is better than oram's,cairns, styris vettori and everyone else.

Why doesn't his performances against Bangladesh not count much? He's had 3 very good chances to perform, and he has failed. If he is being selected as a batting allrounder, we might as well play Sinclair at 5 when Fleming comes back and do a straight swap with Oram for Harris.

because performances against b'desh dont prove anything, we've seen him succeed against quality attacks before. if he has scored runs against SA and pak recently, i find it hard to believe that his struggling against b'desh shows that he isnt good enough to play ODIs. more likely to do with a lack of form than anything else.