***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

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Well looking at how Australia have struggled without the stars you can only imagine the same happening to India when their stars retire.

Big issues with young bowlers are consistency and stamina

If Pattinson, Cummins etc are fit this season, I expect Oz to win comfortably but drop a test in the process and that's with Tendy, etc

 

[Spark]

Well looking at how Australia have struggled without the stars you can only imagine the same happening to India when their stars retire.

right, but that's a prediction down the track (and possibly a few years down the track) - not a statement of now.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

right, but that's a prediction down the track (and possibly a few years down the track) - not a statement of now.

You wonder how long they have left though, Tendulkar and Dravid are 38 pushing 39 and Laxman is 37. No guarantee they will last another couple of years when they are that old.

 

[hazsa19]

Even if that were true, it's not the selectors' fault if Hughes is too much of a massive ***** to be left out of the side for a few games without turning into a phenomenally crap batsman for two and a half years.

Ye, the bloke can't even clip a half volley off his legs. I'll be stunned if he ever 'makes it' in Test Cricket.


And I wouldn't write off India's future. They'll always produce talented batsmen, might not be world beaters, but they'll compete. I was surprised as anyone by this summers tour of England. Maybe we really were THAT good?

 

[diteras aka.]

Whilst I don't think that Hughes should be in the team, let's not forget that he slaughtered Steyn and co with a technique your average blacksmith would be ashamed of.

The kid is obviously a genius when it comes to hand/eye co-ordination but, I suspect, mentally fragile/quite immature atm

Lathwell was just another in a long line of hacks produced by England at the time, no more capable of scoring a 100 against Steyn than me and comparisons between he and Hughes are an insult

...dont you think that this typifies the modern test cricket thing though?
It seems to me that even pretty decent bowlers - like Steyn - have lost the ability to think independently and if they come across someone from leftfield, with a bit of talent, that they haven't had a weeks seminar on, they struggle. As soon as Hughes' technical deficiencies against pace were seen and filmed he was boiled like a bunny.

Modern man lacks basic core strength, through not having to work hard for a living I guess. Therefore, when you find someone gifted with the ability to bowl fast, you wrap him in cotton wool before his spine gives in. You then programme him to bowl to order. Likes of Larwood shoveled coal, at a face, on their knees, for 12 hour shifts, six days a week - you cant replicate that in a gym without being had up for cruel and inhuman treatment - (thank god). The modern bowler just doesn't bowl enough to out think a batsman who isn't in the script.
How many overs a season did Trueman or Lindwall bowl?

 

[Redbacks]

Modern man lacks basic core strength, through not having to work hard for a living I guess. Therefore, when you find someone gifted with the ability to bowl fast, you wrap him in cotton wool before his spine gives in. You then programme him to bowl to order. Likes of Larwood shoveled coal, at a face, on their knees, for 12 hour shifts, six days a week - you cant replicate that in a gym without being had up for cruel and inhuman treatment - (thank god). The modern bowler just doesn't bowl enough to out think a batsman who isn't in the script.
How many overs a season did Trueman or Lindwall bowl?

A big cold beer might do the trick
VB

 

[Uppercut]

It's not that simple though. It's not that he just turned to poo without reason, he was going through a fundamental reworking of his technique. Name me a single batsmen who would score heavily against quality bowlers in the middle of doing that.

Yeah, I'm definitely in with the majority who see Hughes's career as a narrative about technique, personally.

The idea that the selectors ruined Hughes by dropping him too soon is just really stupid. Firstly, he looked terrible. He didn't look like threatening to score a run for the rest of the Ashes. Secondly, if his confidence was so fragile that being left out made his batting turn poo for two years then he would never have made a test batsman anyway. Thirdly, he was replaced by Watto, making the decision one of very few recent success stories for the Aussie selectors. With hindsight we can see that it was an excellent decision.

 

[Furball]

let's wait until they tour here first before saying that. ordinary away is based on playing england who had an attack bowling mostly 140kmh handgrenades (and swinging it both ways)

Australia will hammer India.

 

[Pup Clarke]

[QUOTE}=SteveNZ;2716546
Southee was by and large rubbish, and you can include his batting in that. So maybe it's a rocket at him?

/QUOTE]

So many contrasting views on his performance. I cbf digging up the posts but I'm pretty certain that some posters thought he was the pick of the seamers in the 1st dig. IMO, he was pretty much innocuous throughout the majority of the innings.

You've only playing four bowlers Tim. Bend your back ffs.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Ah that was fun.

New Zealand fans going on about how they're going smash 450-500 and beat this rabble no bother, to wanting their batsmen hung drawn and quartered and the utter despair at a crushing defeat. Always from one extreme to the other, players are either heroes or villains.

Bring on the Second Test. A stodgy surface should level the playing field.

 

[Athlai]

Ah that was fun.

New Zealand fans going on about how they're going smash 450-500 and beat this rabble no bother, to wanting their batsmen hung drawn and quartered and the utter despair at a crushing defeat. Always from one extreme to the other, players are either heroes or villains.

Bring on the Second Test. A stodgy surface should level the playing field.

Yeah, na.

 

[BeeGee]

Yeah, na.

This.

 

[James]

And we open with who?

Bring in Watling, he's in the squad and likely to offer up more than Young IMO.

Although probably a very unpopular move, I would say Southee must be close to being dropped with Boult and Arnel pressing hard. A great ODI and T20 bowler but he hasn't taken a 5 wicket-hall since his debut, averages 43 with the ball and seemed lost in Brisbane.

My team for the 2nd Test in batting order would be:

Guptill, Watling, Taylor, Williamson, Ryder, Brownlie, McCullum, Vettori, Bracewell, Boult, Martin.

 

[Smudge]

Pointless mentioning McCullum as the 'keeper, as he's not going to keep in tests. It's quite simple - that ain't going to change. Just drop him if he's not batting well enough but stop promoting him as the possible keeper, because his knees aren't up to it.

 

[adub]

From what i've seen of Australian cricket, I couldn't disagree more. He's a decent batsman, an average opener. He can smash all the cover drives in the world to mid-off, but he doesn't construct and craft an innings.

His bowling is quality. A step above the rest at the moment. You've had a couple of decent debuutants, but they're obviously not ready to be part of a 3 man pace attack against the better sides. Watson could be invaluable.

AWTA

Watson as a pure batsman would only qualify in our top 6 due to the absolute dire depth we currently have. It is the bowling that makes him so valuable for us. Without that he'd have to stand and fall on his batting alone and if every one's perennial whipping boy Hughes gets the bullet the eyes will turn pretty quickly to Watson if he doesn't get back amongst the runs. If all he's good for are 50s he'll need to make them 2 out of every 3 innings or he'll be under heaps of pressure.

We need that good 5th bowler option atm and the move to bring Christian into the squad is an indication the selectors are looking at options outside of Watson.

 

[straw man]

Good news for Mitchell McClenaghan fans (and I know you all are) - he's over there too on unofficial duty, bowling to them on NZ. A Starc clone, of sorts. And he's back fit and bowling, for the best club side in the country

That's good to hear - had no idea what had happened to him since he went away injured. Flem will be pleased

Yeah, don't know about the Arnel selection either. Mainly I don't know why they think they need a second spare bowler. Once they'd decided that, well the cupboard would have been fairly bare - Arnel, McKay, Mills...............

 

[Flametree]

Why does New Zealand not produce good openers? Watching Guptill in this test was depressing to be honest - he's simply not up to it. Here are his stats :

v Australia 123 @ 20.50
v Bangladesh 245 @ 245.0
v India 245 @ 27.22
v Pakistan 251 @ 27.88
v Sri Lanka 105 @ 26.25
v Zimbabwe 109 @ 54.50

Take out the minnows, and he's in the Cumming/McIntosh/Bell territory. How do we think he'll do against Steyn, Morkel and Philander later in the summer?

Yes, I know, easy to criticise, but is there anyone better around? Watling doesn't seem any more likely to succeed. Has anyone seen Jamie How bat recently? Is he doing anything differently than when he was in the test side?

 

[robelinda]

Why does New Zealand not produce good openers? Watching Guptill in this test was depressing to be honest - he's simply not up to it. Here are his stats :

v Australia 123 @ 20.50
v Bangladesh 245 @ 245.0
v India 245 @ 27.22
v Pakistan 251 @ 27.88
v Sri Lanka 105 @ 26.25
v Zimbabwe 109 @ 54.50

Take out the minnows, and he's in the Cumming/McIntosh/Bell territory. How do we think he'll do against Steyn, Morkel and Philander later in the summer?

Yes, I know, easy to criticise, but is there anyone better around? Watling doesn't seem any more likely to succeed. Has anyone seen Jamie How bat recently? Is he doing anything differently than when he was in the test side?

Bring back Sinclair and Bell. Bryan Young looked good in that charity match last season lock him in.

 

[Mike5181]

This is the best NZ side we could name at the moment. The bowling attack is the only thing we could change with Boult possibly coming in for someone. We just underperformed. McCullum, Williamson, Taylor and Ryder are better than that.

 

[stephen]

Yeah, I'm definitely in with the majority who see Hughes's career as a narrative about technique, personally.

The idea that the selectors ruined Hughes by dropping him too soon is just really stupid. Firstly, he looked terrible. He didn't look like threatening to score a run for the rest of the Ashes. Secondly, if his confidence was so fragile that being left out made his batting turn poo for two years then he would never have made a test batsman anyway. Thirdly, he was replaced by Watto, making the decision one of very few recent success stories for the Aussie selectors. With hindsight we can see that it was an excellent decision.

The problem was not that the selectors dropped Hughes per se. It's that they dropped him after two poor tests (three innings really) and publicly criticised his technique and told him he wouldn't be picked until he reworked it. Now maybe that was the right thing to do long term for him, but it's hard to say. Unorthodox techniques can work in cricket.

But the point is that he has been handled appallingly at times by CA and deserves a few chances in the test side. We expect players to just slot in and adjust instantly to test cricket, but that has very rarely happened in the past and generally only to players who are in their late 20s. Hughes needs some time.