***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

[Prince EWS]

Forgot about your hard-on for Cameron, which is pretty impressive given that I'm also reading through the tour match thread in the Ashes subbie.

Thought you didn't rate Butterworth?

I probably rate Butterworth more than most followers of Australian cricket, tbh. I certainly would have picked him ahead of Cutting, Pattinson and Starc, especially once Copeland (who I'd try to avoid playing in the same attack as Butterworth) was blacklisted for whatever reason. I don't think the Australian selectors would've picked him, but he's injured anyway.

I wasn't actually saying I thought those seven were the best seven though; just that you could conceivably argue it. Butterworth's been the best Shield bowler going over the last two or three seasons (along with Copeland) and he played for Australia A last winter so he's certainly up there.

It's interesting about Watson though. I had no problem including him in the "arguably Australia's best seven bowlers list" but where would he actually rank in the pecking order of specialist bowlers? He's been Australia's best Test bowler over the last couple of years really, especially when you take Harris's lack of consistent availability into consideration.

 

[Furball]

I probably rate Butterworth more than most followers of Australian cricket, tbh. I certainly would have picked him ahead of Cutting, Pattinson and Starc, especially once Copeland (who I'd try to avoid playing in the same attack as Butterworth) was blacklisted for whatever reason.

I wasn't actually saying I thought those seven were the best seven though; just that you could conceivably argue it. Butterworth's been the best Shield bowler going over the last two or three seasons (along with Copeland) and he played for Australia A last winter so he's certainly up there.

OK, if it's not you, one of you guys doesn't rate him. Or I might be getting Butterworth and Cutting mixed up.

 

[Prince EWS]

OK, if it's not you, one of you guys doesn't rate him. Or I might be getting Butterworth and Cutting mixed up.

Yeah, I really don't rate Cutting at all.

I really hope he doesn't play, but sadly enough he's actually not a particularly bad pick on performance as he cleaned up in the Shield two seasons ago, missed last season through injury and has cleaned up this season too. I just don't think it'll translate to Test level or tbh even last at Shield level.

 

[howardj]

This is something I was thinking about the other day actually.

Back in the early 80s, a tour to Australia for just about everyone would have been 4-5 Tests and plenty of ODIs (was the World Series Cup finals not a best of 5 event back in the day?). Touring sides would probably have played quite a few FC warm up games and most of the Test players would have had quite a few Shield games as well. Even as recently as the 1990s, an Australian Ashes tour would have started in May, would have seen the team take on every single county, as well as a few games against composite sides like a Minor Counties XI, and finished in September, and England would have played all of the state sides at some point on an Ashes tour.

I suppose the main difference between now and 30 years ago is that you'd only have had 1 series (if that) per season, as opposed to the 2 or sometimes 3 that teams have now.

Yeah, even as far back as the early 1990s, things were as hectic as they are now...

I mean in 1992, Australia went to Sri Lanka for 3 match series (Mark Waugh got his 4 ducks), then we were back home to play a full scale Summer featuring a 5 Test series against the Windies, with the Test players not rested from Shield games, then we played the tri-angular ODI series that Summer. Then, after that, we went on a 3 Test tour of NZ in March, followed by a 6 Test tour of England from May-September. After that, in November we started a 6 Test Summer against NZ and SA, along with a ODI tri-Series. Then, following that we went on our first Test tour to SA.

These days, granted there are more short ODI tours etc and T20 tournaments, but especially when you consider that guys are rested from Shield matches nowadays, the current guys simply do not play any more cricket than what the Allan Borders etc used to play 15-20 years ago.

 

[robelinda]

Only one thing to say - HARDEN UP.

 

[robelinda]

Aussies licking lips over Gabba | Cricket | Fox Sports


So, 15 years ago eh? 1996/97 vs WI??? Was spicy on day one for sure. But flattened out, i mean Healy got 161*....

 

[Sylvester]

Given Copeland, George, McDonald and McKay have all been blacklisted for lack of pace, Butterworth is probably out of luck.

 

[Furball]

Yeah, even as far back as the early 1990s, things were as hectic as they are now...

I mean in 1992, Australia went to Sri Lanka for 3 match series (Mark Waugh got his 4 ducks), then we were back home to play a full scale Summer featuring a 5 Test series against the Windies, with the Test players not rested from Shield games, then we played the tri-angular ODI series that Summer. Then, after that, we went on a 3 Test tour of NZ in March, followed by a 6 Test tour of England from May-September. After that, in November we started a 6 Test Summer against NZ and SA, along with a ODI tri-Series. Then, following that we went on our first Test tour to SA.

These days, granted there are more short ODI tours etc and T20 tournaments, but especially when you consider that guys are rested from Shield matches nowadays, the current guys simply do not play any more cricket than what the Allan Borders etc used to play 15-20 years ago.

Australia's 1993 Ashes itinerary:

30 Apr        Tour Game  Australians v England Amateur XI
2 May         Tour Game  Australians v Duchess of Norfolk's XI
3 May         Tour Game  Australians v Middlesex
5-7 May       Tour Game  Australians v Worcestershire
8-10 May      Tour Game  Australians v Somerset
13-15 May     Tour Game  Australians v Sussex
16 May        Tour Game  Australians v Northamptonshire
19 May        1st ODI    England v Australia
21 May        2nd ODI    England v Australia
23 May        3rd ODI    England v Australia
25-27 May     Tour Game  Australians v Surrey
29-31 May     Tour Game  Australians v Leicestershire
3-7 June      1st Test   England v Australia
9-11 June     Tour Game  Australians v Warwickshire
12-14 June    Tour Game  Australians v Gloucestershire
17-21 June    2nd Test   England v Australia
23-25 June    Tour Game  Australians v Combined Universities
26-28 June    Tour Game  Australians v Hampshire
1-6 July      3rd Test   England v Australia
8 July        Tour Game  Australians v Minor Counties
10 July       Tour Game  Australians v Ireland
13-15 July    Tour Game  Australians v Derbyshire
17-19 July    Tour Game  Australians v Durham
22-26 July    4th Test   England v Australia
28-30 July    Tour Game  Australians v Lancashire
31 July-2 Aug Tour Game  Australians v Glamorgan
5-9 Aug       5th Test   England v Australia
11-13 Aug     Tour Game  Australians v Kent
14-16 Aug     Tour Game  Australians v Essex
19-23 Aug     6th Test   England v Australia

Warne bowled 785.5 overs on that tour.

 

[Ruckus]

Given Copeland, George, McDonald and McKay have all been blacklisted for lack of pace, Butterworth is probably out of luck.

The thing is though, George, McDonald, McKay and Butterworth can all bowl consistently around 130 ks (McKay capable of a fair bit higher too). If they are gonna start drawing the line even at the 130 k mark, then I think I might just go kill myself.

 

[outbreak]

Since when is pace valued higher then the ability to actually bowl lines that take wickets? No point bowling 145k if you aren't taking wickets

 

[Scaly piscine]

Regarding injuries obviously intensity of cricket plays an important part. Taking it to the extremes someone is a lot less likely to get injured bowling at say 90% in the nets than in a big Test match. Whilst you will get wear and tear injuries complicating things there were a lot of people getting injured in the IPL and recent World Cups. It seems to me that the guys who bowl within themselves and just occasionally use the odd effort ball have a lot fewer problems with injuries. Obviously there are exceptions.

If you skip back to the past there may have been as much cricket as there is now, but there were a lot of games where quick bowlers could ease off. These days it's one international fixture after another with television and technology everywhere. If someone eases off in an ODI it will be picked up on. The bowler might be in the sort of situation where they're not really up for it but they're kinda straining against themselves to still give everything they've got.

 

[Ruckus]

Since when is pace valued higher then the ability to actually bowl lines that take wickets? No point bowling 145k if you aren't taking wickets

For the right or wrong reasons, it just simply is though. Comes as no coincidence to me that all of the bowlers chosen for the A game are capable of 140ks.

 

[trapol]

Agree

I mean if only bowlers above 130km can play test cricket then one RJ Hadlee would never have played for NZ.

If they are the best bowlers they should play

 

[Spikey]

If you hated Siddle as much as Spikey does

hey don't just single me out!

 

[howardj]

Regarding injuries obviously intensity of cricket plays an important part. Taking it to the extremes someone is a lot less likely to get injured bowling at say 90% in the nets than in a big Test match. Whilst you will get wear and tear injuries complicating things there were a lot of people getting injured in the IPL and recent World Cups. It seems to me that the guys who bowl within themselves and just occasionally use the odd effort ball have a lot fewer problems with injuries. Obviously there are exceptions.

If you skip back to the past there may have been as much cricket as there is now, but there were a lot of games where quick bowlers could ease off. These days it's one international fixture after another with television and technology everywhere. If someone eases off in an ODI it will be picked up on. The bowler might be in the sort of situation where they're not really up for it but they're kinda straining against themselves to still give everything they've got.

I take your points, and they are well made. But, I strongly agree with Ian Healy who last Summer said that at least for Australian players it's generally averaged out at 15 Tests and 30-35 ODIs per year since the player's union demanded it back when he played, and it's continuing to average out at that.

I applaud the selectors for this Brisbane Test for not wanting to play injured players. It's the rotation thing that has me worried though - the policy that they announced on Saturday that they would pursue, which was the policy blasted by Lawson quite rightly in my view, in the paper this morning.

Just rotating players in and out, on some predetermined basis, just creates more uncertainty in what is already an uncertain best XI.

 

[Nate]

Maybe it's too obvious.

 

[uvelocity]

this is a month old now, but still

No more cotton-wool bowlers: Lee - Sports News First

 

[Spikey]

on the whole cutting thing, i've seem him a couple of times and i've mainly thought 'meh'....but you can't argue with the wickets so

 

[NZTailender]

I've hardly been following cricket this year, even NZ. Whats wrong with da Hilfenhaus? He's fit but not in consideration?

 

[Spikey]

he's ****