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***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

flibbertyjibber

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I don't think he's finished reworking his technique tbh. When you change your trigger movements as much as he has it's obviously gonna feel different as to where off stump is (which is his major issue, aside from not playing straight enough at times)
More fool the selectors for picking a guy reworking his game when he hasn't had a chance to finish the job then. Trouble is he will be mentally scarred by constantly failing now. Going to be tough to turn it round I think.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Whilst dropping him might be the right idea, you'd have to feel rough if you were Hughes given what others have been allowed to get away with.
 

Spikey

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Like I said, he's still the most recent non-Clarke guy to score a ton....and that's not really a defence.


More fool the selectors for picking a guy reworking his game when he hasn't had a chance to finish the job then. Trouble is he will be mentally scarred by constantly failing now. Going to be tough to turn it round I think.
I believe it was PEWS who said Hughes in the Ashes was literally in the middle of changing it, and wasn't sure what to do in the tests
 

Ruckus

International Captain
i'm not sure if that's better or worse than being a Ponting-and-Watson 'decent enough score but' merchant
It's practically the same. At the end of the day, Hughes and North etc. have averages in the 30's, which just isn't good enough.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Like I said, he's still the most recent non-Clarke guy to score a ton....and that's not really a defence.




I believe it was PEWS who said Hughes in the Ashes was literally in the middle of changing it, and wasn't sure what to do in the tests
Yeah, I wouldn't hold his Ashes form against him. Picking a bloke who was both woefully out of form and reworking his technique was just never a good idea. Hughes probably did about as well as you could expect him to in those circumstances.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
It's practically the same. At the end of the day, Hughes and North etc. have averages in the 30's, which just isn't good enough.
So does Watson.

Most of the guys who might be in with a shout of replacing him also average mids 30s. Would Chris Rogers for 2 years really be the worst idea in the world?
 

Ruckus

International Captain
So does Watson.

Most of the guys who might be in with a shout of replacing him also average mids 30s. Would Chris Rogers for 2 years really be the worst idea in the world?
Yeah Watson needs to up his game too. If Watson is allowed to focus on his batting, which I think he should be, then I'd be confident he'll produce good enough results soon. He at least has pretty solid technique to fall back on. I'd like to give someone like Warner a go before turning to someone like Rogers. He is really getting on in age, and it is too much of a stop gap solution for my liking. In any case, it simply just won't happen. If the selectors were considering a move like that, they would surely just bring back Katich.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
One thing that has made me chuckle is how the Aussies were all doom and gloom after the 47 and then the attack they picked for the 2nd test in SA and a few weeks later they have 2 wins, have blooded some promising young bowlers and all of a sudden there is optimism again.

Funny how quickly things can change round in this game.
I think that you'll find most Aussies were pissed off at the pace of change/inconsistent selection process and simply had no faith in any of their decisions.

As an example, it took 2 horrible defeats in Ashes series and slipping to no. 5 in the world before our selectors realised that Hilf/Siddle/MJ wasnt "working" (and that is putting it extremely politely) whilst, in the same period, we went through 10 spinners

Furthermore, the Oz batting order has been "misfiring" (again, politeness) and just about the only substantive change (excluding North) was to punt Katich who was one of our few consistent performers
 
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social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So does Watson.

Most of the guys who might be in with a shout of replacing him also average mids 30s. Would Chris Rogers for 2 years really be the worst idea in the world?
Khawaja could easily open (as could Hussey for that matter).
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
It's practically the same. At the end of the day, Hughes and North etc. have averages in the 30's, which just isn't good enough.
What do you think is good enough these days? Hughes, Watson, Khawaja and Haddin are all on the wrong side of 40. Remember when we used to have all our top 7 above 45? Those were the days!

We seem to be playing on pretty decent wickets that actually offer something to the bowlers, so I'm thinking a 40 average is more solid now compared to what it was a few years ago for instance.
 

Burgey

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What do you think is good enough these days? Hughes, Watson, Khawaja and Haddin are all on the wrong side of 40. Remember when we used to have all our top 7 above 45? Those were the days!

We seem to be playing on pretty decent wickets that actually offer something to the bowlers, so I'm thinking a 40 average is more solid now compared to what it was a few years ago for instance.
Hayden, Langer, Martyn to name three weren't setting the world alight in the formative stages of their careers either though. Long term I suspect the key to the whole thing is what role they settle on for Watson.

While he can open in tests, I really don't think it's the answer for him as an all rounder or for the team. If he settles into either four or six (Clarke hopefully stays at five where he seems to thrive) it would mean he could bowl more overs, hopefully.

In Khawaja and Marsh there seem to be two young blokes who put a high price on their wicket, though the latter having a chronic back condition at so young an age is not a good sign at all. Were he fit, I can't see why Marsh couldn't open either.

Just some thoughts.
 
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Ruckus

International Captain
What do you think is good enough these days? Hughes, Watson, Khawaja and Haddin are all on the wrong side of 40. Remember when we used to have all our top 7 above 45? Those were the days!

We seem to be playing on pretty decent wickets that actually offer something to the bowlers, so I'm thinking a 40 average is more solid now compared to what it was a few years ago for instance.
For a wicket keeper, I'm absolutely fine with anything close to 40. So Haddin is ticking that box atm (as long as he can keep it up). For an opener, we should have at least one of them averaging 45 or more. I really think Watson can average that as well, but his form has slipped in recent times. Reckon Khawaja will be able to average around 45 as well, he looks pretty solid from what I can see and just needs some more chances. I really don't think we should settle for more than 1 of our top 6 averaging much less than 40-45 tbh. The other top teams in the world (India, Eng, SA) haven't, so I don't see why we should have to. Sounds pretty spoilt, but I still think we have enough talent there yet to achieve that.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Just on Hughes: is test cricket the right arena to be reworking your basic MO?

This is only my guess based on what I've seen of him, but I can't help but wonder if his junior coaches have done the boy a big disservice by not making him work on his technical kinks before now. I think it's obvious to anyone who's seem him that he has a tremendous eye and I'm sure this stood him in very good stead for buckets of runs in age group, Grade and even SS cricket where the bowling isn't quite good enough to consistently exploit his eccentricities.

I suspect, without knowing anything that's gone on re his junior coaching, one or two of his mentors have just left him alone and enjoyed his weight of runs. Now, at the highest level, a few of the chickens are coming home to roost despite his obvious talent.
 

Ruckus

International Captain
While he can open in tests, I really don't think it's the answer for him as an all rounder or for the team. If he settles into either four or six (Clarke hopefully stays at five where he seems to thrive) it would mean he could bowl more overs, hopefully.
Do you have faith in him being able to sustain (injury-wise) being an allrounder though (regardless of where he bats)?

It just seems to me as soon as Clarke made Watson bowl more, he started getting niggles and proper injuries. Given his past I see it as a pretty perilous road to go down...
 

Briony

International Debutant
Just on Hughes: is test cricket the right arena to be reworking your basic MO?

This is only my guess based on what I've seen of him, but I can't help but wonder if his junior coaches have done the boy a big disservice by not making him work on his technical kinks before now. I think it's obvious to anyone who's seem him that he has a tremendous eye and I'm sure this stood him in very good stead for buckets of runs in age group, Grade and even SS cricket where the bowling isn't quite good enough to consistently exploit his eccentricities.

I suspect, without knowing anything that's gone on re his junior coaching, one or two of his mentors have just left him alone and enjoyed his weight of runs. Now, at the highest level, a few of the chickens are coming home to roost despite his obvious talent.
That's true but 'eye' batsmen like Sehwag and Gayle have flourished with minimal foot movement though admittedly get exposed in difficult conditions.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Yeah Burgey I agree with all of your thoughts, the one thing about Martyn, Hayden and Langer's absence from the Test team was for a long period - So someone like Hughes probably shouldn't be rushed back as soon as he hits some form again.

Ideally Hughes is the sort of player that I hope makes the Australia A tour to England next year.

For a wicket keeper, I'm absolutely fine with anything close to 40. So Haddin is ticking that box atm (as long as he can keep it up). For an opener, we should have at least one of them averaging 45 or more. I really think Watson can average that as well, but his form has slipped in recent times. Reckon Khawaja will be able to average around 45 as well, he looks pretty solid from what I can see and just needs some more chances. I really don't think we should settle for more than 1 of our top 6 averaging much less than 40-45 tbh. The other top teams in the world (India, Eng, SA) haven't, so I don't see why we should have to. Sounds pretty spoilt, but I still think we have enough talent there yet to achieve that.
Interesting to hear. It definitely is easier said then done though. I don't know about that talent thing either. Not too many young batsman are catching the selectors eye in the Shield this year who you'd expect to average 40 if they were handed a baggy green.
 

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