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***Official*** New Zealand in Australia 2011

Flem274*

123/5
Last sentence suggests Clarke might want to retain the infamous duo.

Clarke wants to manage Cummins workload

"I couldn't be happier, I don't care who gets the wickets," Clarke said. "I said that in Sri Lanka, Michael Hussey can get ten-for, I don't care who gets the wickets. I just want 20 wickets and I want to get more runs than the opposition. It was Paddy's day. First Test in Brisbane could be Peter Siddle's day or Mitchell Johnson's day."
Kane might struggle for an opportunity to hit a front foot cover drive if those two play.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Pretty sure if Johnson does play, Williamson won't struggle to get over 30 runs in an innings though providing he faces an over or two off Mitch.
 

morgieb

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Williamson will get over 30. TumTum just shot himself in the foot you think.

Doubt the Kiwis can win a test, but I think they can test us under the right circumstances.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I worry for NZ's bowling in this short series. The big scores that Australia could easily register will then put a lot of pressure onto NZ's undoubtedly talented batting line-up. On their day, McCullum, Guptil, Taylor, Ryder and Williamson could trouble most international attacks providing they can be patient and disciplined.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Patrick Cummins will do some serious damage to us i think.
Could go either way tbh. He's obviously got some serious ability, but he hasn't converted his skills into results prior to his test debut. The sample size is tiny however, so you have to take his poor results with a grain of salt as well.

We'll have to wait and see with him. Our batsmen aren't (shouldn't be) sitting ducks this time around, so I think we can take confidence from that.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
I worry for NZ's bowling in this short series. The big scores that Australia could easily register will then put a lot of pressure onto NZ's undoubtedly talented batting line-up. On their day, McCullum, Guptil, Taylor, Ryder and Williamson could trouble most international attacks providing they can be patient and disciplined.
I'm cautiously optimistic about our bowling provided the ball swings and we go in with a five man attack.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I'm cautiously optimistic about our bowling provided the ball swings and we go in with a five man attack.
Would that be using a mix of Brownlie and Ryder as the fifth bowler ? I feel going in one batsman short in favour of another specilaist bowler may be dangerous.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I would go for four specialist bowlers against Australia, so Vettori would bat at 7 and Young at 8 with the 3 quicks to follow.

Australia's batting is vulnerable so it would be surprising to see the need for a 4th seamer.

1 Guptill 2 McCullum 3 Williamson 4 Taylor 5 Ryder 6 Brownlie 7 Vettori 8 Young 9 Southee 10 Bracewell 11 Martin/Boult
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
I would go for four specialist bowlers against Australia, so Vettori would bat at 7 and Young at 8 with the 3 quicks to follow.

Australia's batting is vulnerable so it would be surprising to see the need for a 4th seamer.

1 Guptill 2 McCullum 3 Williamson 4 Taylor 5 Ryder 6 Brownlie 7 Vettori 8 Young 9 Southee 10 Bracewell 11 Martin/Boult
That seems the likely lineup (with Martin starting). I really would love to see Boult in the team though whether it is at the expense of Martin or Brownlie doesn't really bother me.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I would go for four specialist bowlers against Australia, so Vettori would bat at 7 and Young at 8 with the 3 quicks to follow.

Australia's batting is vulnerable so it would be surprising to see the need for a 4th seamer.

1 Guptill 2 McCullum 3 Williamson 4 Taylor 5 Ryder 6 Brownlie 7 Vettori 8 Young 9 Southee 10 Bracewell 11 Martin/Boult
Would agree with this. Don't think NZ can place too much responsibilty or rely too much on their specialist batsmen to get the big runs if they went in with five specialist bowlers. It's not that they aren't talented enough, but they need to prove they can do be relied upon to produce the results and on a consistent basis, of which they haven't yet.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Vettori is a batsman who bowls, I don't think the 4-bowler advocates are really getting their head around that when they think of the balance. Having 4 'bowlers' when that figure includes Vettori and probably the proven mediocrity of Martin you're really going to struggle to get anyone out.

I don't think packing the batting is a viable option for scraping draws with NZ in Australia. So at least pick a team that can bowl a Test class side out twice. Australia's batting is vulnerable but you still have to put pressure on them in the first place. Even if Australia continue to play Vettori hilariously badly he will still be milked for significant periods of the game, you don't want to be forced to bowl him 25-30 overs a day in Australia and be forced to bowl some rookie/****e seamers 20 overs a day each when they're bound to be erratic. England could get away with 4 bowlers because they had a long preparation for it, they had the best finger spinner in the world and 3 very disciplined and classy seam bowlers. They could maintain pressure and didn't have a weak link. New Zealand will have weak links at different stages, if you're forced to continue with someone who's being ineffective or in a crap spell then Australia are going to get on top very quickly.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Vettori is a batsman who bowls, I don't think the 4-bowler advocates are really getting their head around that when they think of the balance. Having 4 'bowlers' when that figure includes Vettori and probably the proven mediocrity of Martin you're really going to struggle to get anyone out.

I don't think packing the batting is a viable option for scraping draws with NZ in Australia. So at least pick a team that can bowl a Test class side out twice. Australia's batting is vulnerable but you still have to put pressure on them in the first place. Even if Australia continue to play Vettori hilariously badly he will still be milked for significant periods of the game, you don't want to be forced to bowl him 25-30 overs a day in Australia and be forced to bowl some rookie/****e seamers 20 overs a day each when they're bound to be erratic. England could get away with 4 bowlers because they had a long preparation for it, they had the best finger spinner in the world and 3 very disciplined and classy seam bowlers. They could maintain pressure and didn't have a weak link. New Zealand will have weak links at different stages, if you're forced to continue with someone who's being ineffective or in a crap spell then Australia are going to get on top very quickly.
Vettori can trouble Australian batsman, he has done it before. Also, more importantly he can tie up one end.

Getting to the bold part, by picking 6 batsman and then having Vettori at 7 can put pressure on Australia if New Zealand bat first.

Honestly though, according to you NZ are completely rubbish with the ball and have absolutely no hope, I don't really know what you expect NZ's fourth seamer will do?
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
My mother always taught me that if you do the same things you've always done, you'll always get the same results.

Henceforth, if we pick 3 seamers and Vettori as our spinner, which we have done ad nauseum over the last 3-4 years, we won't get results out of it. Our last Test win over decent opposition was March 08 (or there abouts) against England

Ryder isn't a bowling option due to his injury and lack of fitness. Brownlie isn't even a decent option at FC level. If we want to take 20 wickets, which we have to if we want to win a Test, four seamers is the go. Otherwise we're just trying to produce draws.
 

Woodster

International Captain
My mother always taught me that if you do the same things you've always done, you'll always get the same results.

Henceforth, if we pick 3 seamers and Vettori as our spinner, which we have done ad nauseum over the last 3-4 years, we won't get results out of it. Our last Test win over decent opposition was March 08 (or there abouts) against England

Ryder isn't a bowling option due to his injury and lack of fitness. Brownlie isn't even a decent option at FC level. If we want to take 20 wickets, which we have to if we want to win a Test, four seamers is the go. Otherwise we're just trying to produce draws.
I'm afraid producing draws on this tour may be wishful thinking regardless of the make-up of your team. You've absolutely got to look to take 20 wickets in a Test, but if you have no foundations or an inability to set the game up due to not having enough runs on the board, then despite having an extra bowler the likelihood of managing 20 wickets diminishes greatly.

For me NZ's top 6 is not yet reliable enough to accommodate the extra bowler. At least with a decent score on the board that will bring its own pressures onto the Aussie batsmen.
 

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