*** Official New Zealand Domestic Season Thread 2010/11 ***

[Mike5181]

Tbf, Ryder is a better Test batsman than Taylor.

Ryder has the skill/technique to trump Taylor any day of the week but it's his attitude at the crease that really sets him apart. When Ryder gets a double hundred and gets out he is angry at himself for not scoring more but Taylor uses his now famous flaw the slog sweep regardless of the situation it seems. He should be averaging 45 in tests and 40 in ODIs if he had the temperament of a more mature player but sadly he hasn't improved in that area much since his debut. Its a little harsh to doubt his match winning ability based on the last couple of months he was considered are best batsmen before this time.

On KNB, he wouldn't be the worst 20/20 international player but i probably wouldn't have him in an ideal NZ team. He is improving though so don't write him off as just a untalented club cricketer/basher just yet.

It will be interesting to see what changes are made to the teams that play against Pakistan.

 

[Athlai]

When was the last time Taylor got out to a slog sweep in Tests? How many times has it happened?

The thing that bothers me the most about criticisms of Taylor compared to the likes of Fleming and Astle is that Taylor is still in basically the honeymoon period of his career, he should not be the senior batsman in this team at his age and with the Tests he has under his belt. But he is and he still does a good job of it, reckon the best is still to come from him after he properly matures. Which will take years, as it does for most players.

 

[Athlai]

Tbf, Ryder is a better Test batsman than Taylor.

Against India.

Want Ryder to play more opposition. Definitely should be though.

 

[Mike5181]

When was the last time Taylor got out to a slog sweep in Tests? How many times has it happened?

The thing that bothers me the most about criticisms of Taylor compared to the likes of Fleming and Astle is that Taylor is still in basically the honeymoon period of his career, he should not be the senior batsman in this team at his age and with the Tests he has under his belt. But he is and he still does a good job of it, reckon the best is still to come from him after he properly matures. Which will take years, as it does for most players.

Its not just the slog sweep. He finds equally stupid shots to play all round the wicket. It is his thinking behind the shots that is the problem.

In regards to the experience he has etc. We have to remember that NZ doesn't play a huge amount of test cricket so the amount of time he has spent in and around the NZ outfit is not always going to be reflected in the amount of matches he has played. He is considered to be a senior player as he was given the captaincy on occasions and especially with the likes of Williamson and co in the team.

 

[NZTailender]

I just discovered something slightly bizarre. In my vague memories, I thought that Taylor has played better when he's not had people falling all around him; i.e. in matches with Ryder he's scored more runs. It's actually the total opposite.

Taylor's average in matches with Ryder: 36
Without: 45

Massive difference. However, his average is dragged down from batting at 3 and at 5 (ave 18 from 2 matches and 19 from 4 respectively), with his 'new'/preferred position at 4 with Ryder 5 resulting in an average of 42.

There's a number of stats that are interesting in those filters (like win/loss ratio), but using stats for everything doesn't reveal all.

I think, at the moment, most of our players are out of form. We're in a rough patch, a real rough patch - mostly in ODIs it seems. I think the past 12 months and the next 12 will be seen as a real low point. I don't think it's a question of whether certain players are any good, because Taylor, Ryder, McCullum, Mills, Tuffey, Vettori, Styris, Southee and Oram are (I guess it's debatable whether some of those are out of form...depends on your own criteria) and Williamson and Bennett are just starting out and will get better.

We're out of form. Hopefully we can get some confidence back vs Pakistan then head to the World Cup and do well (semis). Now's the time to identify how we've arrived where we are, and how to best avoid or minimise that in the future, and work out some other conundrums like the Hopkins/keeping in Tests issue.

 

[straw man]

I really can't understand the criticism of Taylor in tests. He arrived in a team with ZERO international class batsmen and he has been the one batsman who New Zealand have gradually built that strong(ish) middle order around. He has performed where numerous others have failed. If his method for dealing with the pressure is to play with an element of '****-it-all, I'm just going to bat my way' then that's fine with me, because he has been and still is successful. And he does score runs when it matters and doesn't just cave when faced with some quality opposition bowling, as his record of scoring runs against nearly every team shows.

He's a much lesser ODI batsman, mainly due to his struggles with rotating the strike.

 

[straw man]

I think our good ODI form prior to this season was less due to performances of established players (Ryder, McCullum and Taylor were average) and more because it seemed every new player brought into the team excelled (Guptill, Elliott, Butler). It's those players and other new additions who aren't performing now.

 

[Mike5181]

I really can't understand the criticism of Taylor in tests. He arrived in a team with ZERO international class batsmen and he has been the one batsman who New Zealand have gradually built that strong(ish) middle order around. He has performed where numerous others have failed. If his method for dealing with the pressure is to play with an element of '****-it-all, I'm just going to bat my way' then that's fine with me, because he has been and still is successful. And he does score runs when it matters and doesn't just cave when faced with some quality opposition bowling, as his record of scoring runs against nearly every team shows.

He's a much lesser ODI batsman, mainly due to his struggles with rotating the strike.

Zero is a little bit harsh. That team beat the number one team Australia on several occasions and at times had players like Astle, Fleming, Styris, Oram, McCullum and even McMillan. They are the worlds best batsmen but they are great players.

Why does everyone kept saying he performs under pressure? where was he this entire tour and the Bangladesh series? Was that not sufficient pressure to spark some performances from him.

In other news Daniel Vettori stays in the captains position. That was fairly obvious i guess considering there is no one else in the team that could do it (styris could but he is to old.)

 

[Bahnz]

Zero is a little bit harsh. That team beat the number one team Australia on several occasions and at times had players like Astle, Fleming, Styris, Oram, McCullum and even McMillan. They are the worlds best batsmen but they are great players.

Why does everyone kept saying he performs under pressure? where was he this entire tour and the Bangladesh series? Was that not sufficient pressure to spark some performances from him.

In other news Daniel Vettori stays in the captains position. That was fairly obvious i guess considering there is no one else in the team that could do it (styris could but he is to old.)

I think straw man's comments related to test cricket. By the time Taylor became a fixture in the test side in 2008, the only two players you mentioned above who were still in the side were McCullum and Oram (who batted at number 7). Given Ryder's comings and goings, and McCullums constant shuffling up and down the batting order, Taylor has been the only real constant in that top 6.

And as for the Bangladesh series, while his performances weren't fantastic, he was still New Zealand's highest run scorer, with an average of 37 (by way of comparison, Vettori, McCullum, Elliot and Ryder all averaged around 20). Had he had a bit of support from...well anyone...he might have been able to win us some matches.

 

[_Ed_]

So, B. Lee making his Welly debut today? Hope they bat first - I'm not gonna be home from uni in time to see much of the first innings.

 

[Bahnz]

So, B. Lee making his Welly debut today? Hope they bat first - I'm not gonna be home from uni in time to see much of the first innings.

Won't be happening, unfortunately. It's been piss awful weather in Wellington all day and it shows no signs of abating.

 

[Mike5181]

So, B. Lee making his Welly debut today? Hope they bat first - I'm not gonna be home from uni in time to see much of the first innings.

Oh man i really want to watch him rip through our domestic batsmen

 

[Mike5181]

Won't be happening, unfortunately. It's been piss awful weather in Wellington all day and it shows no signs of abating.

Auckland weather has been crap today as well. It's a bit weird as yesterday it was like a really nice day.

 

[Chewie]

It was incredibly humid today which was very annoying.

They're showing a replay of the CD-Otago match at the moment.

 

[_Ed_]

Looks like live coverage will resume at 6:35. So the game might start soon after that.

 

[_Ed_]

12 overs a side.

 

[straw man]

I think straw man's comments related to test cricket. By the time Taylor became a fixture in the test side in 2008, the only two players you mentioned above who were still in the side were McCullum and Oram (who batted at number 7). Given Ryder's comings and goings, and McCullums constant shuffling up and down the batting order, Taylor has been the only real constant in that top 6.

Yep, that's what I did mean. And to add to that, around that time Oram's batting went from being a good number 6 to being a complete .

 

[_Ed_]

Jeez, Lee was quick in that first over. Shame we don't have a speed gun.

 

[Flem274*]

I only have the scorecard atm. How is CdG looking?

 

[_Ed_]

I only have the scorecard atm. How is CdG looking?

Pretty good actually. He was beaten for pace for the first few balls from Lee, but has been fantastic since.

EDIT: Until then. Carnage! Stumps everywhere.