*** Official New Zealand Domestic Season Thread 2010/11 ***

[Prince EWS]

He has the stats

Does he really?

He's been good this season obviously, but in other two seasons in New Zealand he averaged 33 and 37. In South Africa he only ever got picked for a professional cricket team twice and spent the majority of his team building up his First Class record playing in a second-tier competition that has that status purely by tradition rather than standard, and is almost completely amateur.

I'd say that his couple of games this season were the first times he's ever done anything in meaningful cricket.

He might be a good pick anyway, but he definitely doesn't have the statistical backing for it IMO.

 

[Bahnz]

Wagner simply has to be chosen as soon as available. He has the stats and has been extremely consistent. What series is he available to play?

No he isn't. His performances for Otago prior to this season were distinctly mediocre (averaging well over 30 iirc), and his super awesome looking stats are largely a product of his bowling in the second tier of South African domestic cricket. I reckon he needs at least a full 2 seasons of strong domestic performances before he can be seriously considered.

 

[Flem274*]

It is nice to see three left arm swing bowlers have good starts to the season though. One of the main criticisms of the NZ bowling over the last couple of years is they're mostly bang it in bowlers. A couple of guys who can really take advantage of overcast conditions would be very useful.

 

[Meridio]

Does he really?

He's been good this season obviously, but in other two seasons in New Zealand he averaged 33 and 37. In South Africa he only ever got picked for a professional cricket team twice and spent the majority of his team building up his First Class record playing in a second-tier competition that has that status purely by tradition rather than standard, and is almost completely amateur.

I'd say that his couple of games this season were the first times he's ever done anything in meaningful cricket.

He might be a good pick anyway, but he definitely doesn't have the statistical backing for it IMO.

Bear in mind though, he's still only 24, so would've been late early 20s when playing in SA. I don't pretend to know much about SA first class cricket, but I doubt there's a hell of a lot of 20/21 year olds playing regularly in first class games.

 

[Prince EWS]

Bear in mind though, he's still only 24, so would've been late early 20s when playing in SA. I don't pretend to know much about SA first class cricket, but I doubt there's a hell of a lot of 20/21 year olds playing regularly in first class games.

They're first class in name rather than nature though - there are actually a stack of really young blokes playing in that comp as it acts as an extended feeder comp for their franchise system. It's basically the equivalent of club cricket.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

They're first class in name rather than nature though - there are actually a stack of really young blokes playing in that comp as it acts as an extended feeder comp for their franchise system. It's basically the equivalent of club cricket.

Yes, and no. I get your point, but the current "first class" level in South Africa - the number of franchises is probably a couple short so you do still get some decent cricketers in the "second grade" level. When Wagner was playing in that "second grade" level, it is not inconceivable that he, by now, would be playing "first class" or even at the time he was playing "second grade" that he wasn't that far off playing in the franchise system. I personally don't know how close he was to playing franchise cricket, but I don't necessarily see this as an issue if he can prove that his early season form isn't a flash in the pan.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yes, and no. I get your point, but the current "first class" level in South Africa - the number of franchises is probably a couple short so you do still get some decent cricketers in the "second grade" level. When Wagner was playing in that "second grade" level, it is not inconceivable that he, by now, would be playing "first class" or even at the time he was playing "second grade" that he wasn't that far off playing in the franchise system. I personally don't know how close he was to playing franchise cricket, but I don't necessarily see this as an issue if he can prove that his early season form isn't a flash in the pan.

He actually did play franchise cricket a couple of times - he was always on the verge. I'm not saying that his South African career proves he wasn't good enough, at all - I'm just saying that it doesn't prove what some people seem to think ie. "see look he averaged 22 in South African FC cricket so he's awesome." I don't think it proves much at all either way. He was ordinary in first couple of seasons in New Zealand, and he's been great this season. He should potential in South Africa but never got a real chance to show if he was up to it.

He looks a good prospect, but my point was that the idea that he has the stats to back him up is a bit of a myth. He doesn't have the stats to discount him by any means but they're not what they seem.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

He looks a good prospect, but my point was that the idea that he has the stats to back him up is a bit of a myth. He doesn't have the stats to discount him by any means but they're not what they seem.

In which case, I agree. I just don't agree with people who say he's no good because those South African wickets just don't count. I remain unconvinced in him, but I'll have another look this season and see if he's improved in line with his increased wicket-taking.

 

[Prince EWS]

In which case, I agree. I just don't agree with people who say he's no good because those South African wickets just don't count. I remain unconvinced in him, but I'll have another look this season and see if he's improved in line with his increased wicket-taking.

Yeah I think we're on the same page with him really.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm torn: I quite like Wagner's bowling style, but like everyone else I'm yet to decide whether this is a purple patch or coming of age and, more importantly, he's a true South African. I'm worried we'll become a team full of mercenaries. One player I can take happily, for example when that player is Grant Elliott who was never really rated at all and was a bit of a bolter, but we could have ended up with Myburgh, Elliott, van Wyk and Wagner all in the test side, and that's probably more foreigners than even England have picked at one time.

So I'm secretly crossing my fingers other players gun it. It will be interesting to see whether these guys are still around in five years like Elliott and de Grandholmme or if they will piss off to England for a kolpak/crack at England.

 

[NZTailender]

I'm torn: I quite like Wagner's bowling style, but like everyone else I'm yet to decide whether this is a purple patch or coming of age and, more importantly, he's a true South African. I'm worried we'll become a team full of mercenaries. One player I can take happily, for example when that player is Grant Elliott who was never really rated at all and was a bit of a bolter, but we could have ended up with Myburgh, Elliott, van Wyk and Wagner all in the test side, and that's probably more foreigners than even England have picked at one time..

Yeah because we're riddled with them at the moment. It's unlikely that we'd have Wagner, Elliott, Myburgh, van Wyk and de Grandhomme all in the same team at once.

 

[Bahnz]

Realistically, I think van Wyk is the only one of the lot likely to get a test berth any time soon. de Grandhomme is probably only ever going to be a 20/20 specialist and Elliot a one day merchant.

 

[Prince EWS]

Realistically, I think van Wyk is the only one of the lot likely to get a test berth any time soon. de Grandhomme is probably only ever going to be a 20/20 specialist and Elliot a one day merchant.

I reckon Wagner could get picked soon, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah because we're riddled with them at the moment. It's unlikely that we'd have Wagner, Elliott, Myburgh, van Wyk and de Grandhomme all in the same team at once.

Well impossible since Myburgh went to England, but realistically Elliott, Wagner and van Wyk could feature. One is okay, but I don't like the thought that some could get the idea that we're an easy route to international cricket.

 

[brockley]

What county has myburgh signed for?

 

[Bahnz]

I reckon Wagner could get picked soon, rightly or wrongly.

He's not available until January 2012, apparently. By then I reckon some of the new guard will be coming through and it'll be a lot harder for Wagner to force a place. But if he keeps bowling like he has in these last two games you couldn't rule it out.

 

[Blakey]

He's not available until January 2012, apparently. By then I reckon some of the new guard will be coming through and it'll be a lot harder for Wagner to force a place. But if he keeps bowling like he has in these last two games you couldn't rule it out.

2012 or 2011?

 

[Bahnz]

2012 or 2011?

2012 according to the ODT, a year longer than Wagner expected.

 

[Blakey]

2012 according to the ODT, a year longer than Wagner expected.

I've been reading in papers that's either Jan or April next year.

 

[Prince EWS]

I've been reading in papers that's either Jan or April next year.

I thought it was early next year too.