***Official NBA Thread***

[Fusion]

Dallas' AAC was sold out last night with fans who came to watch the Mavs on the Arena's big screen. That's some dedication!

And finally:

 

[Anil]

congrats fusion!

 

[duffer]

Kobe was humble ? You must have missed NBA for last 15 years then.

Lol, out of context as usual. Humble enough to see where he had shortcomings in his game.

It's never Bron's fault so he will never see the need to change.

 

[Ikki]

I think it's funny how people say he'll never be MJ etc. I grew up watching Jordan, if he played today in the 24/7 media climate we're in now, he'd have killed someone by now. I'm no Lebron lover, but this ridiculous media pressure cooker he's had to live through since he was 16 (he was on the cover of SI ffs!) is something above and beyond what every other player has ever had to live through. More than Kobe. More than Jordan. More than anyone. I truly feel for the man. He had a triple double with four 4th quarter assists in Game 5, and was pounded from pillar to post as though he'd just had the worst game of his career. What kind of standard is that to set for someone? He was absent in the third today and looked genuinely scared to shoot the ball at points in the fourth, but can you blame him? every person in sports would criticise him whether he takes it or whether he doesn't.

Yeah, the guy has an ego and a swagger that people don't like. You would too if you were followed by national media since you were 15 years old. Criticising his personality is fine, but the way it's crept into criticising the way he plays is stupid. Two weeks ago he was one of the greatest players of all time after dominating Boston and Chicago. Now he's a terrible player. The daily re-writing of the legacy of someone who's not even close to 30 years old yet is amazing in it's ridiculousness. I had someone try to argue with me that he's not the most talented basketball player in the world, I asked him for a list of who in the league was better. Russell Westbrook, Amar'e Stoudamire, Blake Griffin were three names on his list.

WTF. Sums it up for mine.

In any case, I'm so happy for Dirk especially. Was a teary moment to see him leave the court after the buzzer went. Deserved it more than anyone.

AWTA massively.

 

[Fusion]

I think it's funny how people say he'll never be MJ etc. I grew up watching Jordan, if he played today in the 24/7 media climate we're in now, he'd have killed someone by now. I'm no Lebron lover, but this ridiculous media pressure cooker he's had to live through since he was 16 (he was on the cover of SI ffs!) is something above and beyond what every other player has ever had to live through. More than Kobe. More than Jordan. More than anyone. I truly feel for the man. He had a triple double with four 4th quarter assists in Game 5, and was pounded from pillar to post as though he'd just had the worst game of his career. What kind of standard is that to set for someone? He was absent in the third today and looked genuinely scared to shoot the ball at points in the fourth, but can you blame him? every person in sports would criticise him whether he takes it or whether he doesn't.

Yeah, the guy has an ego and a swagger that people don't like. You would too if you were followed by national media since you were 15 years old. Criticising his personality is fine, but the way it's crept into criticising the way he plays is stupid. Two weeks ago he was one of the greatest players of all time after dominating Boston and Chicago. Now he's a terrible player. The daily re-writing of the legacy of someone who's not even close to 30 years old yet is amazing in it's ridiculousness. I had someone try to argue with me that he's not the most talented basketball player in the world, I asked him for a list of who in the league was better. Russell Westbrook, Amar'e Stoudamire, Blake Griffin were three names on his list.

WTF. Sums it up for mine.

In any case, I'm so happy for Dirk especially. Was a teary moment to see him leave the court after the buzzer went. Deserved it more than anyone.

I’m reveling too much in the Mavs’ victory to focus on Lebron, but I’ll briefly counter two points you made in his defense. First regarding the constant media scrutiny that Lebron is under. Yes, it’s unprecedented in terms of the 24 hour news cycle and mass coverage on the internet. However, it’s not like Jordan, Magic, Shaq etc were not under the media scrutiny. They had the same pressure, the same expectations, yet they didn’t buckle. Also, they were smart enough to realize that since they were under the microscope, they should not act like King Douche and invite the ire of the general public. It was Lebron’s choice to participate in The Decision and diss an entire city who adored and loved him. It was Lebron’s proclamation that the Heat will win 8 championships before they had even run a single practice together. It’s Lebron’s choice to refer to himself as “The King”. You don’t want people to root against you? Then don’t act like a ****ing douche. Simple as. Also, keep in mind that while he’s had to deal with this constant media scrutiny, he’s also massively profited from it. He has earned mega millions from endorsements alone. Once again, if he doesn’t want the constant spotlight, it might be a good idea to turn down a few advertisements.

Now let’s talk about your second point about criticizing his actual performance, as opposed to his personality. Why is it “stupid” to do so? He disappeared from the biggest stage of the game! Did you know that he set the record for the worst point differential in NBA history from the regular season to the playoffs? It’s not just that he had a sub-par series, he was horrendous in the fourth quarters. That’s when champions, heck even “good” players, rise. Instead, Lebron shrunk from the spotlight. His triple double in game 5 is the most empty triple double I have ever seen. First of all, the only reason he even qualified for the triple double is that the Mavs conceded a garbage time bucket to him to avoid a foul and regain possession to run out the clock. If you watched the game, he had basically zero impact in the second half. There were several times down the stretch when he would get the ball and then pass it to Chalmers or Wade as if he was afraid to take a shot. If you are going to proclaim yourself “The King”, then you better hit those crunch time buckets. To me, it’s fair game to criticize Lebron’s Finals performance. He is supposed to the best player on the planet. Is it too much to ask that type of talent to show up once in a while when the game really matters? To take over at least one game from start to finish? We all realize and appreciate his talent. But his “haters” have a right to question him when he fails and shrinks when it truly matters. He may win his 8 championships yet, but until he does so, he is going to hear from his detractors. But don’t feel bad for him, because as he told us himself, he’s got his great life to live and we have our sad ones to go back to.

I agree massively with your last line btw.

 

[Sanz]

Lol, out of context as usual. Humble enough to see where he had shortcomings in his game.

It's never Bron's fault so he will never see the need to change.

Lebron isn't as good as Kobe, Said it long back. And I don't remember Kobe accepting his fault after some of the NBA finals losses nor did he take responsibility for his problems with Shaq.

I am not a Lebron fan but the hate here is too much.

 

[Sanz]

I’m reveling too much in the Mavs’ victory to focus on Lebron, but I’ll briefly counter two points you made in his defense. First regarding the constant media scrutiny that Lebron is under. Yes, it’s unprecedented in terms of the 24 hour news cycle and mass coverage on the internet. However, it’s not like Jordan, Magic, Shaq etc were not under the media scrutiny. They had the same pressure, the same expectations, yet they didn’t buckle. Also, they were smart enough to realize that since they were under the microscope, they should not act like King Douche and invite the ire of the general public. It was Lebron’s choice to participate in The Decision and diss an entire city who adored and loved him. It was Lebron’s proclamation that the Heat will win 8 championships before they had even run a single practice together. It’s Lebron’s choice to refer to himself as “The King”. You don’t want people to root against you? Then don’t act like a ****ing douche. Simple as. Also, keep in mind that while he’s had to deal with this constant media scrutiny, he’s also massively profited from it. He has earned mega millions from endorsements alone. Once again, if he doesn’t want the constant spotlight, it might be a good idea to turn down a few advertisements.

Now let’s talk about your second point about criticizing his actual performance, as opposed to his personality. Why is it “stupid” to do so? He disappeared from the biggest stage of the game! Did you know that he set the record for the worst point differential in NBA history from the regular season to the playoffs? It’s not just that he had a sub-par series, he was horrendous in the fourth quarters. That’s when champions, heck even “good” players, rise. Instead, Lebron shrunk from the spotlight. His triple double in game 5 is the most empty triple double I have ever seen. First of all, the only reason he even qualified for the triple double is that the Mavs conceded a garbage time bucket to him to avoid a foul and regain possession to run out the clock. If you watched the game, he had basically zero impact in the second half. There were several times down the stretch when he would get the ball and then pass it to Chalmers or Wade as if he was afraid to take a shot. If you are going to proclaim yourself “The King”, then you better hit those crunch time buckets. To me, it’s fair game to criticize Lebron’s Finals performance. He is supposed to the best player on the planet. Is it too much to ask that type of talent to show up once in a while when the game really matters? To take over at least one game from start to finish? We all realize and appreciate his talent. But his “haters” have a right to question him when he fails and shrinks when it truly matters. He may win his 8 championships yet, but until he does so, he is going to hear from his detractors. But don’t feel bad for him, because as he told us himself, he’s got his great life to live and we have our sad ones to go back to.

I agree massively with your last line btw.

Mavs fans are not known to be graceful in defeat or win. Last time when they lost the finals I remember the reaction and all the noise that was made. Good thing is that Dallas Players are not like their fans and that's why one feels really very happy for them. What Lebron and Wade have done was childish and immature along with some other things they said or did, but I am not sure they need this much abuse and hate.

It is kind of ironic to see Dallas fans complain about poor behavior of others when they themselves are so bad that their own players have written about their horrific behavior :-

Disappointing Fan Behavior - Yardbarker


While Jordan was a great player, It is hard to forget some of the statements he has said, for example he said that he could have scored 100 points if he played today. There is also a story about Jordan walking into the opposition locker room with his Cigar and asking "Who is going to Check me tonight". It Lebron did that today it would be treated as both immoral and arrogant, Then with Jordan it was just funny.

Did Shaq not announce that Miami will win a championship after his arrival @ miami ?

And no I have no problem with anyone making some over the top comments, just stating that most top players have done that in the past and Lebron is no exception and the criticism is fair in most cases but the abuse and name calling is not.

 

[Sanz]

You don’t want people to root against you? Then don’t act like a ****ing douche. Simple as. Also, keep in mind that while he’s had to deal with this constant media scrutiny, he’s also massively profited from it. He has earned mega millions from endorsements alone. Once again, if he doesn’t want the constant spotlight, it might be a good idea to turn down a few advertisements.

America is a funny country, almost everyone I see here wants to be rich but there is a deep rooted bitterness against rich and successful people. There is a general feeling that just because a person is rich and has benefited from endorsements, it is automatically assumed that this benefit is because of the media and therefore that Individual should not be complaining no matter what. Lebron would have made his billions even without the media because of his talent. If he has benefited from Media, so has media. Media can't claim to have made Lebron rich. Media is making money even in their attempts to demonize Lebron.

I find it funny that people(fans in general) expect others to do things when they wouldn;t if they themselves were in the shoes of that sportsperson. Why should Lebron turn down endorsements or play for a loser like Dan Gilbert ? It is a free country and Lebron has the right to sign as many endorsements as he can and has the right to play for the team he wants to.

 

[Jono]

Always thought it was the US that looked up to rich and successful people compared to Australia where once you become ultra-successful we want to drag you down (tall poppy syndrome).

Maybe Lebron is just an exception Sanz? Not sure obviously as I don't live in the US, but CEOs and big celebrities seem to be far more loved in the US. If you throw a celebrity in a political ad here in Australia, or they are on stage with a politician, they are criticised. You see Hollywood celebrities vouching for politicans all the time in the US, because the people seem to listen.

 

[Sanz]

No it is hard to pull down CEOs because majority of them are associated with politicians and you can always find some support from people who have similar political beliefs. Infact noone cares about them anyway, if people spent this much time asking questions from the CEOs who are screwing the country, the economy will be a lot better shape.

My point was mainly regarding successful sportsmen in US. They all aspire to be rich and successful even more so in the sports field but until they themselves become big they resent your success. Sportsmen are expected to ignore every crap thrown at them from media and fans and if they complain, Stuff like "What are you complaining about, you make so much money" is very common to hear.

 

[Fusion]

Sanz – I’m continually amazed by your tendency to be a contrarian even in issues where I wouldn’t think the points you are contending are at all defensible. First of all, what relevance does Mavs fans being ungracious in victory/defeat have anything to do with my post about Lebron? I’m going to ask the same question to you that I did to DCYE: How many Mavs fans do you really know to label us as anything? The Mavs don’t have a huge following, they don’t even crack the top 5 most popular NBA teams (they’d struggle to make the top 10), so how exactly are you running into these ungracious fans? Btw, that link you posted about Haywood is from 2009, when he wasn’t with the Mavs. He wasn’t at the game he’s referencing (AKAIK) and hence is going by a third person account that is disputed by others. But I wouldn’t bet against some drunk idiots being boorish. That happens in EVERY city and EVERY sport in the U.S. So please don’t make it sound like the Mavs fans are the only ones guilty of it, or even have a reputation for it. If anything, Dallas area fans are often criticized for being too “polite” and not being as raucous and loud as fans of other cities. You won’t find me defending those drunks. Those types of fans are pathetic and I hope they get arrested every time they pull a stunt like that.

Now let’s talk about Lebron. He has only one person to blame for all the criticism that gets thrown his way: HIMSELF. He was once loved and adored not only in Cleveland, but all over the U.S. The reason he has his mega endorsement deals is that people loved to see him play and genuinely rooted for him. That all changed due to his own inflated ego and irresponsible decisions. I will say it again, if you don’t want people to root against you, then don’t do be a douche and do the following:

• Call yourself “The King”
• Hold an ESPN special to announce “The Decision” and humiliate an entire city. You know, the very same folks that supported you for all these years.
• After failing to beat the best in the league time after time, collude and join with your superstar buddies to win a championship. Sure, you have a right to play with whoever you want. But I know that Jordan, the guy your defenders love to compare you with, wouldn’t have done that. He wanted to beat his competitors, not join them to make it easier on himself.
• State that you are going to win “not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven..” but 8 championships before you have even practiced with your new teammates.
• Mock Dirk and imply that he was faking his sickness. The same Dirk that’s been torching your team in the Finals and has overwhelmingly outperformed you.
• Scoreboard your critics by telling them what a great life you have and they’ll all have to wake up to their same old problems everyday while you live it up. So classy.

Regarding your rant about Americans having a bitterness about rich and successful people, I don’t know where you get that. People here, just like anywhere else, work hard to achieve success. They don’t resent people at the top, on the contrary, they are inspired by them and want to achieve the same level of success. That applies specially to the Sports world. Tiger Woods was universally loved before his own personal actions made him fall from the grace. The majority of people were certainly not rooting against him or bitter that he’s rich. Same goes for MJ, Shaq, Ali, Manning. They are all icons, popular and extremely rich. I don’t see bitterness against them by the general public. Lebron was on that list once. He caused his own downfall. Regardless, that wasn’t why I brought up the point about endorsements anyway. DCYE had stated that Lebron is under constant media spotlight so it’s understandable for him to crack. I was making the point that while that may be true (being in constant spotlight), he has benefited from it as well. And IF he doesn’t want to be in the spotlight, then he should take himself away from it by refusing commercials/TV shows/interviews and what not. He can help himself, IF that’s how he feels.

I notice you didn’t dispute my points about Lebron failing to perform at the highest level. So I hope we are at least in agreement there.

 

[Fusion]

Anyway, don't know why I even brought up Lebron. Don't give a damn about him right now. Back to the celebration! Here's a video of fans watching Game 6 in Dallas inside the AAC (the Mavericks' arena). Gave me chills as the buzzer sounded and the celebrations began:

Mavericks vs Heat Watch Party AAC.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I know at least 10 Mavs fans in person, two of which just won $20k from a joint bet they put on at the start of the season.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Mavs seem to be a cult over here btw. Ten isn't many in the scheme of things but they're by far the biggest supported team in my friend and aquaintance circle. I don't particularly care about what Sanz said though, tl;dr.

 

[Fusion]

Mavs seem to be a cult over here btw. Ten isn't many in the scheme of things but they're by far the biggest supported team in my friend and aquaintance circle. I don't particularly care about what Sanz said though, tl;dr.

I'm shocked and pleased at the same time. I stand corrected.

 

[Anil]

the mavs were the better all-round team, simple as...i thought a combination of james and wade in top form would prove to be deadly against any team...what happened was that lebron underperformed inexplicably, bosh did what he could but he isn't much of a difference-maker at the highest level and wade alone couldn't carry them...their lack of depth was what sunk them eventually...i read an article that signing bosh was the biggest mistake miami made because they paid huge money for him which could have been put to much better use getting some good role players preferably not too over the hill and maybe even a productive smaller star...anyway nowitzki deserved a ring, so did kidd but it was the role players that really won it for them, barea, chandler, stevenson, terry etc...

 

[Sanz]

Sanz – I’m continually amazed by your tendency to be a contrarian even in issues where I wouldn’t think the points you are contending are at all defensible. First of all, what relevance does Mavs fans being ungracious in victory/defeat have anything to do with my post about Lebron? I’m going to ask the same question to you that I did to DCYE: How many Mavs fans do you really know to label us as anything? The Mavs don’t have a huge following, they don’t even crack the top 5 most popular NBA teams (they’d struggle to make the top 10), so how exactly are you running into these ungracious fans? Btw, that link you posted about Haywood is from 2009, when he wasn’t with the Mavs. He wasn’t at the game he’s referencing (AKAIK) and hence is going by a third person account that is disputed by others. But I wouldn’t bet against some drunk idiots being boorish. That happens in EVERY city and EVERY sport in the U.S. So please don’t make it sound like the Mavs fans are the only ones guilty of it, or even have a reputation for it. If anything, Dallas area fans are often criticized for being too “polite” and not being as raucous and loud as fans of other cities. You won’t find me defending those drunks. Those types of fans are pathetic and I hope they get arrested every time they pull a stunt like that.

Mavs fans are ungracious because they did not accept defeat last time with grace and they were not gracious in win. Look at your own posts since the Mavs won the last game and also look at your own posts when the Mavs lost in the last NBA finals. You still do not forget to bring up how your team suffered at the hands of the Refs as if that was the reason your team lost.

As for Mavs fans being soft, yeas tell me about it. I am all ears.

 

[Fusion]

Lol. Whatever you say, Sanz.

 

[Sanz]

Video: Giving LeBron a Break - NYTimes.com

Fusion, I am not a Lebron fan, never was and never will be because I feel he is a highly over-rated player (in comparison to guys like Jordan and Kobe). But I don't agree with the criticism he gets for signing up with Miami Heat. Cleveland Fans should ask question to themselves and to their team owner on why no one wants to play for their team (Remember Carlos Boozer ?) . What Boozer did to Cavs was much much worse than what Lebron Did. Infact Lebron did nothing wrong when he was in Cleveland, he single handedly took them to NBA Championship. He had every right to sign with another team and I don't agree with the term "Cowardly Betrayal" by the Cavs owner and fans. They did not support Lebron, they supported the success that Lebron brought with him. That team is nothing without him and Cleveland fans are perhaps the most stupid fans in the history of NBA along with their owner to not recognize that. Cleveland Cavaliers are not a trustworthy organization, as they have shown in their actions since Lebron's departure and I am certain that after how have handled this no one would willing be want to be a part of that organization.

As for some of the reason why Lebron is hated, I just find it childish and immature to cite those as reasons to hate any individual.

It is funny that you bring up Shaq's example , I am not sure if you know about Shaq's departure from Orlando, It is well known that Penny didn't know about his Lakers gig until the Press conference and that he left Orlando for money (at least Lebron did it for championship and took a lot less money). Orlando fans were devastated too but they did not go on to burn his jersey.

CNNSI.com - NBA Basketball - Say It Ain't So: Orlando Magic - Saturday May 05, 2001 10:11 AM

CNNSI.com - NBA Basketball - Say It Ain't So Readtions: Orlando Magic - Saturday May 05, 2001 10:09 AM

As for Woods, He is still loved by many if not most fans, People are rooting for him to succeed. I am not sure if you have been watching the tournament he has played since his personal issues came up. I would suggest you to compare the ratings of this year US open with the ones where Tiger played. It will come out shortly.

I can go on and on but I guess we will never agree on this one so I will just leave it at that.

 

[Fusion]

I don’t really have an intense interest in Lebron. I do, however, feel sympathetic towards Cleveland fans. I feel like no other superstar athlete of Lebron’s caliber has ever treated his fans this way before, nor has anyone else made as many ill-advised and ego inflated comments as him. I think this probably describes my feeling as well:

I can go on and on but I guess we will never agree on this one so I will just leave it at that.