chris.hinton
International Captain
Marc a Question?
Why do you Enjoy to see flat spin?
Why do you Enjoy to see flat spin?
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*Official* NatWest Series: ENG v SA v ZIM
- Thread starter marc71178
- Start date
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
First point - he's certainly not a line-and-length merchant. He's not there to block an end - just to make batsmen very uncomfortable by using pace to try to blast them out. Now, if that's not what a 'strike bowler' is supposed to be, I don't know what is. If you are trying to imply 'he's not a very good strike bowler', then you won't get any argument from me - just say what you mean.Eclipse said:
Second point - no problem with that sentiment at all.
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
"Steve, ditto."Rik said:"Ashley, I order you not to get any wickets"
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Yesterday, an off-spinner and a leg-spinner combined for their 18 overs to concede just 64 runs, and they picked up I think 1 wicket each. That turned the whole game and restricted a side that was hammering the bowling to a very gettable total.chris.hinton said:
Now, should they have come on at 100odd for 2 or whatever it was and attacked?
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
In ODI cricket it can be very effective, and the key thing to remember with Giles is that he started out as a Left arm seamer for Surrey, before switching to spin. Only a couple of years ago he took the new ball for Warwickshire in an injury crisis.chris.hinton said:
He's therefore more likely to bowl that sort of thing, and when it works, it's superb.
If the pitch isn't turning that much, why not bowl flat?
Mr Mxyzptlk
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"Then off with your head! Where's that Croft lad?"Rik said:"Sorry Micky, I can't even do that!"
chris.hinton
International Captain
?Why would a spinner bowl to be Container?? he asked. ?Dibbly-dobbly bowlers contain, spinners are wicket takers. Spinners have always been risk takers and you can take runs from them but we have this myth that says you take a spin bowler and keep an end tight while another guy takes all the wickets. No, the spin bowler takes wickets.?
Words of Jenner and he is spot on
Who would kids Believe Either Warne or Jenner or Marc71178 (who has never played the game) Erm My brothers say Jenner
"
Words of Jenner and he is spot on
Who would kids Believe Either Warne or Jenner or Marc71178 (who has never played the game) Erm My brothers say Jenner
"
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
They probably should just drop Giles and pick some spritely young quickie, if only to satisfy certain people and end this repetitive, boring argument. Once again, as in the McGrath saga and Harmison saga, we've all stated our points, received counter-comments, stated our points agains and, for good measure, stated our points 5 more times. Please stop.
Next topic - the final. As much as I like England, I'll have to go with South Africa on the basis of one name - Jacques Kallis.
Next topic - the final. As much as I like England, I'll have to go with South Africa on the basis of one name - Jacques Kallis.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Giles couldn't 'contain' if someone scooped his innards out and used him as a bucket.marc71178 said:
Hmmmm, there's a thought.
Langeveldt
Soutie
Being a spinner myself, i definitely wouldnt mind if i got told to contain rather than attack...Id probably prefer it...
Containing is a vital part of ODI cricket, doesnt matter at the end of the day whether its coming from a fast bowler or a spinner.. Whats worse? 220-5 or 260-9?
nothing wrong with Giles being told to contain, but he hasnt been doing it so succesfully so maybe he shouldnt be in the team
Containing is a vital part of ODI cricket, doesnt matter at the end of the day whether its coming from a fast bowler or a spinner.. Whats worse? 220-5 or 260-9?
nothing wrong with Giles being told to contain, but he hasnt been doing it so succesfully so maybe he shouldnt be in the team
Eclipse
International Debutant
Spin Bowlers should be encouraged to attack but Marc is right there are situtions were containment is more importaint but the same rule applyes to quick bowlers.
having said that allways encourage young Spin bowlers to attack if they can learn enough and become good enough they can still attack and also keep the runs down.
A spin bowler is not going to become a Warne or Murili if they are told to bowl deffensivly during there development period.
Giles is not good enough to attack he is probably going to take more wickets deffending sorry chris
The real problem for England is there young Spinners are not encouraged to be attacking they need to know how to get big spin and how to beat batsman in flight.
having said that allways encourage young Spin bowlers to attack if they can learn enough and become good enough they can still attack and also keep the runs down.
A spin bowler is not going to become a Warne or Murili if they are told to bowl deffensivly during there development period.
Giles is not good enough to attack he is probably going to take more wickets deffending sorry chris
The real problem for England is there young Spinners are not encouraged to be attacking they need to know how to get big spin and how to beat batsman in flight.
chris.hinton
International Captain
Of Course Situations Dicate but Attacking is Better.....
To Today match
I would pick
Trescothick
Solanki
Vaughan
Troughton
McGrath
Filntoff
Read
Giles (Give him another game and tell him to attack)
Kabir Ali
Gough
Harminson
Johnson and Anderson should be rested for the final
To Today match
I would pick
Trescothick
Solanki
Vaughan
Troughton
McGrath
Filntoff
Read
Giles (Give him another game and tell him to attack)
Kabir Ali
Gough
Harminson
Johnson and Anderson should be rested for the final
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I'd pick Clarke.
Can't just write about his breakfast (although it's possibly more interesting than his cricket)
Can't just write about his breakfast (although it's possibly more interesting than his cricket)
Bazza
International 12th Man
You just want Kabir Ali to play! (I hope he doesn't) :P
Anyway, I see Marc's sie of the argument, but I think the thing that really bugs me (though not to Botham-like proportions) is if you remember that game against Zimbabwe, we got off to a bit of a flyer, and Ray Price came on bolwing LEFT ARM AROUND, and got the ball to turn and bite and bounce and caused all sorts of problems. Our middle order got quietened and we lost our way and struggled to about 180 or something I think.
When Zimbabwe were batting we took early wickets, but when Giles came on he bowled left arm over, they worked him around for 5 singles an over, slowly built a decent partnership and as they settled and grew in confidence, Flower went on to make 97* or something and they won easily in the end.
Obviously it's not as black and white as we lost because of Giles, but I guess what I'm saying is you can keep runs down by attacking (if the batsmen are under pressure sometimes they just try to survive and you can restrict them to 3 an over that way). I agree to an extent that sometimes OD cricket is seen as "oh we need to defend, put everyone on the boundary and restrict them to singles", rather than "wickets slow the run rate, lets put men in the circle saving one, toss it up a bit into the rough and make them go over the top" (obviously increasing the chance of a wicket - hey English batsmen throw away at least three wickets a game in this fashion!).
But not all the time.....
Anyway, I see Marc's sie of the argument, but I think the thing that really bugs me (though not to Botham-like proportions) is if you remember that game against Zimbabwe, we got off to a bit of a flyer, and Ray Price came on bolwing LEFT ARM AROUND, and got the ball to turn and bite and bounce and caused all sorts of problems. Our middle order got quietened and we lost our way and struggled to about 180 or something I think.
When Zimbabwe were batting we took early wickets, but when Giles came on he bowled left arm over, they worked him around for 5 singles an over, slowly built a decent partnership and as they settled and grew in confidence, Flower went on to make 97* or something and they won easily in the end.
Obviously it's not as black and white as we lost because of Giles, but I guess what I'm saying is you can keep runs down by attacking (if the batsmen are under pressure sometimes they just try to survive and you can restrict them to 3 an over that way). I agree to an extent that sometimes OD cricket is seen as "oh we need to defend, put everyone on the boundary and restrict them to singles", rather than "wickets slow the run rate, lets put men in the circle saving one, toss it up a bit into the rough and make them go over the top" (obviously increasing the chance of a wicket - hey English batsmen throw away at least three wickets a game in this fashion!).
But not all the time.....