***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[Pedro Delgado]

Mind you, I am squiffy after just pollishing off a nice Australian red though but.

I can't argue with you Vaughan did have success, but he isn't opening for starters, and do you not agree the three tons he made were on decent pitches? Doubtful (and quite stupid if it happens) that he'll have that luxury this series. Strauss, Tresco will use their natural attacking instinct and take McGrath on and this could end up 60-0 or 10-2, then out walks Mick. I think the latter score is the more likely and Mick just can't go after the bowling with reckless abandon.

Different series different batting position different wickets, different analogy for me.

 

[Top_Cat]

I can't argue with you Vaughan did have success, but he isn't opening for starters, and do you not agree the three tons he made were on decent pitches?

His third ton at the SCG in that series was made in the second innings on a deck which was pretty good for batting early on but was becoming increasingly uneven. Have a look at the card;

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2002-03/ENG_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/ENG_AUS_T5_02-06JAN2003.html


Only Hussain and Vaughan really got going against what wasn't really great bowling. The deck was two-paced by that point and Vaughan played it very well. His best knock of the series, I reckon.

 

[Slow Love™]

Nobody has ever been successful "dropping anchor" against McGrath.

It takes enormous discipline (and extraordinary ability to exploit all the other bowlers), but Brian Lara watchfully saw McGrath off again and again in the Caribbean in '99. Almost won a series doing it.

 

[irfan]

All over, Australia looking in ***y form.

***y form ey? how wud u define that

 

[Slow Love™]

***y form ey? how wud u define that

***y = attractive, "mmmmmm", exciting, HOT
form = playing well, in good nick

Well, that's how I'd define it, but I'm sure there are many different meanings you could derive from the phrase.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It takes enormous discipline (and extraordinary ability to exploit all the other bowlers), but Brian Lara watchfully saw McGrath off again and again in the Caribbean in '99. Almost won a series doing it.

Well, he did somewhat, but he has also taken McGrath to the cleaners on other occasions, and when he has tried to see McGrath off he gets dismissed more often than not, as seen in the 2000/01 series. I also think McGrath is a better bowler today than he was in 99.

Nevertheless, I probably should have said that the majority of batsmen who succeed against McGrath do so in an attacking rather than defensive fashion.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It takes enormous discipline (and extraordinary ability to exploit all the other bowlers), but Brian Lara watchfully saw McGrath off again and again in the Caribbean in '99. Almost won a series doing it.

So is there any evidence of a mortal doing it?

 

[greg]

I can't argue with you Vaughan did have success, but he isn't opening for starters, and do you not agree the three tons he made were on decent pitches? Doubtful (and quite stupid if it happens)

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see good pitches throughout the summer. Ever since the debacle that was the Windies series in 2000 almost every test match pitch (on the directive of the ECB, no doubt) outside Headingley has been a belter (due in no small part to the incredibly good summers we've been having as well). This is true for the county game as well and English cricket and improved immeasurably as a direct result. Preparing seamer's paradises is a thing of the past and (as recent tests at Headingley have shown) they are probably no longer the best conditions for our bowlers.

 

[Eclipse]

What an ironic statement that is!

coming from him it is, but true none the less.

 

[tooextracool]

I hate to take the bait, but putting a guy who is good enough to bat at 4 for Queensland and average in the high 40s as well as bowling a fair amount in the same group as those bits-and-pieces nothing players is grossly unfair.

ian blackwell averages 45 for somerset.
personally i've not seen anything from watson to suggest that hes not a 'bits-and-pieces nothing player', and i cant believe that someone as rubbish as he is with the ball averages 28 in FC cricket. but considering that bracken too has a decent FC record, surely it must say something.

 

[tooextracool]

Trouble is:

a: Mick won't be opening (I agree he should be, Strauss at 3)
b: One of the main contributing factors in Mick's success was the pace and true bounce of the wickets over in Aus, he picked up the length quickly and knew the pitch wouldn't undo him.

Will we see good pace and trueness on our wickets? Do we WANT it? There is no better side in the world more devastating on flat wickets than these tourists, we need "seamers" and that's an end to it.

I advocate Mick seeing off McGrath this time and not attack, I want him dropping anchor.

seeing off mcgrath has never really worked(bar one series against NZ 4 years ago). once he gets into a rhythm, hes almost unplayable especially in english conditions and i think i'd rather have someone whos prepared to play his strokes up the order, than tresco and strauss try blocking him and eventually getting out to him.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

ian blackwell averages 45 for somerset.
personally i've not seen anything from watson to suggest that hes not a 'bits-and-pieces nothing player', and i cant believe that someone as rubbish as he is with the ball averages 28 in FC cricket. but considering that bracken too has a decent FC record, surely it must say something.

Watson is a top-shelf batsman. His bowling is a bit different, but I think he gets a fair amount of his wickets simply because he's accurate and reasonably sharp. If you run in and put the ball in the right areas and have decent pace and can move it off the seam a little, you'll get wickets eventually. Watson isn't much of a bowler on roads though, I don't think. He benefits from bowling at the Gabba a reasonable amount.

I'm interested to see how he goes for Hants bowling at the Rose Bowl in 4D games. I wouldn't be surprised to see him do fairly well. Unfortunately it looks like his side is keeping him from bowling currently.

 

[aussie]

i'd like to see vaughan open in teh ashes actually, if trescothick must play then he should bat at 6.

Very interesting thought tec, but that aint going to happen

 

[aussie]

ian blackwell averages 45 for somerset.
personally i've not seen anything from watson to suggest that hes not a 'bits-and-pieces nothing player', and i cant believe that someone as rubbish as he is with the ball averages 28 in FC cricket. but considering that bracken too has a decent FC record, surely it must say something.

Watson is a pretty good batsman, much better than Blackwell in my view, his bowling is similar to Flintoff in Freddie earlier days but its by no means rubbish , their is potential in his bowling for sure.

Knowing you i would expect you to say at this stage Watson is nothing but a bits a pieces player but when a blokes plays how he did on debut for Hampshire that tells me that he has the potential to be much more than that.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Watson is better than Blackwell, but even Blackwell would have fancied his chances of filling his boots on that pitch.

 

[marc71178]

I wonder if it had been Blackwell played that innings, how many English fans would've hyped it up?

 

[aussie]

I wonder if it had been Blackwell played that innings, how many English fans would've hyped it up?

well not me, because we all have seen him on the international stage and i for one wouldn't have gotten too carried away.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I wonder if it had been Blackwell played that innings, how many English fans would've hyped it up?

I suppose that depends what you mean by "hyped it up". I don't really think there has been any "hype" around it (at least not yet), given that it was clearly a very good innings from a player who has never done much in OD games before. It's worthy of mention, but obviously given the wicket and the bowlers not something people should get too carried away with.

As far as Blackwell goes though, well he played an innings a few weeks ago which got plenty of mention from England fans on this forum.

 

[luckyeddie]

I wonder if it had been Blackwell played that innings, how many English fans would've hyped it up?

The phrase 'hype-up' has no meaning where Ian Blackwell is concerned.

<quack> Fry-up, maybe

 

[tooextracool]

Knowing you i would expect you to say at this stage Watson is nothing but a bits a pieces player but when a blokes plays how he did on debut for Hampshire that tells me that he has the potential to be much more than that.

i'd be extremely surprised if rikki clarke and ian blackwell hadnt played better innings.