• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official***Match #32 - New Zealand vs South Africa - November 1st - Pune (D/N)

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Only the third match in Pune by the looks of things, the other two were where India easily chased (3-down) vs Bangladesh and Afghanistan easily chased (also 3-down) vs Sri Lanka. So I guess we want to chase too.
 

Moss

International Captain
Yes it would be good to get him back, but your statement that it's really hurting NZ isn't correct at all.

They've been travelling just fine & the only 2 games they lost were the Australian one when they were an odds-on chance of winning at the end, needing 9 from 3 with Neesham on strike & of course the lost to India when NZ really lost their way towards the end of the batting innings yet still pushed India closer than most other teams. Have you been watching?
Don’t want to read too much into two very well contested defeats, but I think they masked a few issues NZ have (especially in terms of bowling penetration). On the batting front KW hasn’t been missed much but that’s largely down to Mitchell and Ravindra playing out of their skins. The others need to step up. But i think Williamson is particularly missed on the leadership front, Latham’s okay but runs out of ideas at times.

To give credit where it’s due Afghanistan showed in their last two games they’re a serious team in these conditions, so Latham’s efforts with the bat and in leading the side in that game in Chennai were crucial.
 
Last edited:

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
LH Ferguson2022-20232625206.051245283/1944.466.0444.100investigate this query
TG Southee2022-20231414113.46634244/2226.415.5728.410

I'm not a huge fan of Southee in ODIs as he got a free pass for far too long but the last 2 years when we've had injuries to our first choice bowlers, he stood up pretty well IMO. If anything he'd be better than Ferguson in current conditions because Ferguson can be extremely hittable and the faster you bowl the faster you go to the fence. Southee's variations and prolonged experience of Indian conditions should count for something.

However, I do agree Milne would be a better option as he was hitting his straps leading up to the tournament. I just don't think Southee is as bad now as he has been and I don't think he's a waste of space in the squad.

Also I know those stats seem misleading, and for those who are interested in opposition in that time:

Southee

v Australia2220.019621/3948.004.8060.000
v England3321.0016542/6541.257.8531.500
v India3321.3112153/7324.205.6225.800
v Pakistan3324.1114463/5624.005.9524.100
v West Indies3327.0310874/2215.424.0023.110

home3321.3112153/7324.205.6225.800
away111192.15513194/2227.005.5629.110


Ferguson:

v Afghanistan117.011933/196.332.7114.000
v Australia3322.0015432/6051.337.0044.000
v Bangladesh4322.1110353/4920.604.6426.600
v England2218.0013021/5065.007.2254.000
v India7755.5234673/5949.426.1947.800
v Ireland2220.0110422/4452.005.2060.000
v Netherlands118.00320--4.00-00
v Pakistan3325.0014532/6348.335.8050.000
v Scotland1110.007722/7738.507.7030.000
v West Indies2218.0013511/80135.007.50108.000

home3322.5113243/5933.005.7834.200
away1918155.13975182/4454.166.2851.700
neutral4428.0113863/1923.004.9228.000
More notably in the last 12 months Southee's ER is 6.45 and has him on the list of those Kiwi bowlers >6s and notably a worse ER than Ravindra.

Further to that and more importantly for me, Ferguson, who admittedly has been very wayward himself in the last couple of years (with glimpses of better form this WC) has a much higher ceiling than Southee, and bowls first change, a position I believe Southee would get murdered by the better teams. Southee's an opener, but he's not going oust Boult or Henry from that role.

I just wish Milne was the back-up over Timmy M. (Mediocre).

1698820274807.png
 

Moss

International Captain
Southee interestingly has been pretty good in T20s over the last couple of years but I guess his particular set of variations get easier to deal with over 10 overs. Agree with NZT though that he’s useful enough to have as reserve but can’t see him being more effective than Ferguson (in that particular role).

Also for such an experienced player he tends to go missing in bigger games IMO. Tailed off at the business end of the 2015 WC, and his bowling in the 2021 final and 2022 semifinal (T20 World Cup) was disappointing.
 

thierry henry

International Coach
I know it’s not just his decision but this doesn’t help to improve the impression that Latham is either a very simplistic and narrow-minded tactician or maybe just kind of dopey
 

Skyliner

International 12th Man
Doull says SA want to bat first, love posting up a big total, NZ have given it away, and now SA are favourites.
 

King Kane

International Regular
Yeah not sure bowling first is the right move when SA usually bat better batting first but apparently chasing on this ground is usually more successful.

We chased pretty well against Australia but we also conceded more runs than we scored and we were lucky not to concede over 400.

Southee in a bit of a concern too, he is a quality red ball bowler but he can be expensive with the white ball.
 

Moss

International Captain
Having picked him, wouldn’t mind Southee getting a crack with the new ball and Boult as first change, but doubt that will happen
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Having picked him, wouldn’t mind Southee getting a crack with the new ball and Boult as first change, but doubt that will happen
Nah, Boult is good against lefthanders and has a good record against QDK.

Perhaps give one of Boult and Henry a shorter new ball spell than usual though to give Southee an early crack.
 

Top