***Official***Match #29 - India vs England- October 29th - Lucknow (D/N)

[centurymaker]

You expect statements like this from Pakistan, not England hehe

 

[ankitj]

So your claim now is that England's bad batting has been more a case of bad luck than anything mental?

I'm consistently baffled by people who refuse to countenance the importance of mental factors in elite sport. Hell you don't have to have exactly played a lot of sport yourself to realise it's hugely important.

I mean mental aspects are a thing but without specifics of how they effect the game, it's quite pointless as an explanation. Like with SA in world cup chases you can see how they start playing lot of dot balls, then play random release shots or take singles that don't exist. Or with Iyer you can see he is trying too hard to prove his short ball game and in the process trying to pull balls that aren't even there for pull.

Without such specifics, I'd consider mental demons wrong diagnosis. There's lot that has been wrong with England's preparation anyway and then some bad luck too (like couple of played on wickets last night could well have not happened).

Also as an aside, poor results is often a cause rather than effect of mental problems.

 

[Spark]

Or with Iyer you can see he is trying too hard to prove his short ball game and in the process trying to pull balls that aren't even there for pull.

I mean I'm just going to let you figure out the problem with writing this sentence whilst simultaneously ignoring mental issues as a major contributor.

 

[Daemon]

Personally I think it's the diet. Word is they asked for stargazy pie in their cookbook but were denied.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I mean I'm just going to let you figure out the problem with writing this sentence whilst simultaneously ignoring mental issues as a major contributor.

He's saying it's obvious that it exists in Iyer's case. But not in England's because there's no such outwardly obvious mental issue that may be affecting their game.

 

[Groundking]

The mental factor is real but it's lazy to ascribe it to mental factors when we don't really have any evidence or indication that it could be the case.

And as I said before, they really gave it their all in the field throwing themselves around and saved a ton of runs. If they'd really packed it in, it doesn't tally with the effort they clearly put in.

It's definitely possible for a set of cricketers to hit their peaks and troughs as cricketers simultaneously.

Players can still be fielding excellently yet be completely rubbish with the bat despite being a great bat. Something as simple as ending up in your own head a bit too much with how your feet are moving can quickly send even the best batsmen hopelessly out of form and there's a lot of moving parts required to hit a ball that's moving 80+mph over 22 yards or changing direction after pitching by a couple of degrees whilst drifting through the air.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

ball that's moving 80+mph over 22 years

Wanna hit this magic ball.

 

[Daemon]

He's saying it's obvious that it exists in Iyer's case. But not in England's because there's no such outwardly obvious mental issue that may be affecting their game.

I don't think obvious is the right word, but with the Iyer thing there's something observable to make a credible hypothesis from.

With England there's no obvious or observable sign to suggest a mental breakdown is the main reason for their poor WC, other then getting spanked, which is just likely a result of whole bunch of things which is now being exacerbated by their mental state and the fact that it's tough to pull yourselves out of a rut.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I don't know. Butler clearly looks spooked.

 

[CricAddict]

It is quite obviously lack of match practice and wrong team selections. Mental state or dressing room issues are lame excuses. As Ankit says, the losses are cricket skill related, not some mental or mood thing.

 

[Molehill]

It is quite obviously lack of match practice and wrong team selections. Mental state or dressing room issues are lame excuses. As Ankit says, the losses are cricket skill related, not some mental or mood thing.

But these are the same guys whose cricket skills won them a T20 less than a year ago.

 

[Silver Silva]

I don't think obvious is the right word, but with the Iyer thing there's something observable to make a credible hypothesis from.

With England there's no obvious or observable sign to suggest a mental breakdown other then getting spanked, which is just likely a result of whole bunch of things which is now being exacerbated by their mental state and the fact that it's tough to pull yourselves out of a rut.

I do think ankit is right that there's not much that can be observed to draw the conclusion that their mental state is the main reason why they're doing so poorly.

Yeah brother you would have to be a professional psychologist to declare someone is having a mental breakdown. And if it's so easy to detect based on bad results, then half the teams in the whole tournament are traumatized.

 

[Molehill]

Yeah brother you would have to be a professional psychologist to declare someone is having a mental breakdown. And if it's so easy to detect based on bad results, then half the teams in the whole tournament are traumatized.

Most teams are playing to their expected potential, England clearly are not.

 

[Silver Silva]

Most teams are playing to their expected potential, England clearly are not.

Yeah but you can play below your potential because of poor form , because the opposition is better than you on the day , because conditions don't favour your strengths, because of lack of preparation..

None of that requires mental breakdown.

These are high stake matches at play , top 7 qualify directly for Champions Trophy which even England coach said he didn't know about until yesterday lol that is more evidence of lack of preparation than the signs of mental breakdown

 

[Daemon]

It is quite obviously lack of match practice and wrong team selections. Mental state or dressing room issues are lame excuses. As Ankit says, the losses are cricket skill related, not some mental or mood thing.

Eh, cricket is a very mental game so I wouldn’t completely dismiss it to that extent. 3 consecutive <200 scores does suggest the early losses have made it worse.

 

[ankitj]

I mean I'm just going to let you figure out the problem with writing this sentence whilst simultaneously ignoring mental issues as a major contributor.

You gotta give specifics mate. What are England doing wrong due to their "lack of confidence"? Otherwise it's as good as God-did-it. Explains everything and nothing at the same time.

England's cricketing deficiencies explain it much better IMO.

 

[Ashes81]

Most teams are playing to their expected potential, England clearly are not.

In a nutshell that sums it up.

If we finished say in 5th place, and had lost a few close games to the likes of India and SA, then you could argue that we've had a disappointing WC but performed OK. Maybe with an aging side, 5th is about where we are.

But we're nowhere near our level - we're not just getting beat, we're getting hammered.

We're struggling to post 200 and bat more than 30 odd overs.

We're an absolute shambles and that IMO is not down to our talent, it's down to other issues.

Now what those other issues are, hopefully the ECB will get to the bottom of it so this kind of performance never happens again.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

'If we could buy some confidence... we would spend a lot of money': Dejected Chris Woakes after demoralising loss to India

The England batting lineup is low confidence despite having an array of all-rounders as they have not been able to cross 200-run mark in the last three games.

m.thesportstak.com

 

[Molehill]

Yeah but you can play below your potential because of poor form , because the opposition is better than you on the day , because conditions don't favour your strengths, because of lack of preparation..

Even if all that were true, it wouldn't explain the nature of the defeats.

2015 was a team that was rubbish, this lot were the 2nd favourites going in. Now you can say how we all thought the bowling might struggle, but the batting? Yesterday was the second time in 3 innings that none of the top 6 had reached 20. That had not happened in the previous 282!!

England's cricketing deficiencies explain it much better IMO.

And what are these deficiencies? Presumably the same ones that have dominated white ball cricket for the last 7 years.

 

[ankitj]

And what are these deficiencies? Presumably the same ones that have dominated white ball cricket for the last 7 years.

Root and Stokes are no longer the players they were in the format. Moeen always a kinda bits and pieces who is batting too high. Spinning conditions and slow pitches not suitable for their batting style. Don't have a strong bowling core (Topley out of nowhere seemed to be leader of the pack at one point). No Archer like spearhead. Etc. I believe. And interested in hearing more from others.