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*Official* Match #10 — Australia Vs South Africa Oct 12th, Lucknow

TheJediBrah

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The fielding was a big problem during the Ashes too. I'm not sure how seriously to take the claims that they no longer actually practice fielding intensively but if so then McDonald needs immediate sacking.
I think the theory/reports that McDonald is too soft sound legit. Letting players do what they want too much, no consequences or accountability. I also think it's lead to an overindulgence in the importance of incumbency, for example the entitlement of the fast bowling group Haze/Starc/Cummins

Like an overcorrection of Langer the disciplinarian
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I think the theory/reports that McDonald is too soft sound legit. Letting players do what they want too much, no consequences or accountability. I also think it's lead to an overindulgence in the importance of incumbency, for example the entitlement of the fast bowling group Haze/Starc/Cummins

Like an overcorrection of Langer the disciplinarian
Yeah I'm coming to that conclusion too. Like the reports you'll hear of players going "nah I don't want to do fielding practice today" and McDonald going "ok" are hard to believe but it's hard to account for the fielding standards since the Lord's Test otherwise. There's surely a balance to be struck between having no enforced standards at all and Langerism.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That Stoinis decision was awful. It made no difference to the end result at 70-odd for 5, but the incompetence is shockingly bad, unless the 3rd umpire had vision of something the rest of us couldn't see.
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
I've been pleasantly surprised with Lungi Ngidi, losing Anrich Nortje was a big blow and there was concerns about Ngidi but he's stepped up massively, his pace is up, he's been consistent and going great guns.
Ngidi has always done well when called upon and has a very good record across formats. But for some reason, he is not rated by management and fans alike. I would have preferred Nortje or Magala to Ngidi really for the Indian team to face.
 

TheJediBrah

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Ngidi has always done well when called upon and has a very good record across formats. But for some reason, he is not rated by management and fans alike. I would have preferred Nortje or Magala to Ngidi really for the Indian team to face.
Not exactly. He was terrible in the Tests in Australia last summer. Like really bad

Would have been nice if he stayed that way
 

Kenneth Viljoen

International Regular
Ngidi has always done well when called upon and has a very good record across formats. But for some reason, he is not rated by management and fans alike. I would have preferred Nortje or Magala to Ngidi really for the Indian team to face.
He has the propensity to be really expensive, he looked really bad vs WI then he had that nightmare T20 series vs Aus , going at 13 an over..but then came back strongly in the ODI series and now here at the WC
 

trundler

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I'm afraid this just isn't true. The only all-rounder that doesn't merit a place in the team as a batsman alone is Stoinis, and everyone has agreed for years that he shouldn't be anywhere near the team. Mitch Marsh and Glenn Maxwell are essentially playing as batsmen, with other skills as a bonus. Cam Green is a borderline case but it's fair to say he would be picked as a batsman ahead of just about anyone else in domestic cricket too.

The only guy in Aus domestics who should probably be in the squad as a batsman ahead of the non-Stoinis all-rounders is Ashton Turner. Khawaja not so much, and a big reason for that is that like almost everyone else in the Aus team he needs to bat at the top of the order to be effective. You can't pick 7 opening batsmen in a team.

So in summary, Australia aren't so much picking a bunch of all-rounders because they want a lot of all-rounders. It's just that 3 or 4 of their best ODI batsmen just happen to be all-rounders
That doesn't make the balance not terrible. It just a thoroughly rotten team composition. Maxwell is the foremost of the no rounders and the only one who can be considered a lock. He's a luxury that only teams with a stable top 6 can afford. He should not be batting higher than 7 since he's going to fail more often than not. Throwing in 2 or 3 more flukey batsmen on top of that is a recipe for disaster. Stoinis, Marsh and Green do not complement the rest of the side by providing stability. Stoinis is neither icing nor cake but just a waste man and Marsh needs to be in prime form to be useful. Green isn't the #5 Australia needs too. He's another player that needs an otherwise stable batting order to flourish and find his feet. No team can afford to have so many unproven (Marnus, Green) or mercurial (Maxwell, Stoinis, Marsh) players at once. None of these guys should be in contention to make the side as batsmen alone anyway but even if they are, balance considerations should've meant only one of them plays.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
The issue with Australia's batting order is it is rife with part-time performers. Marsh, Inglis, Maxwell, Stoinis, these are guys you might rely on once a tournament to get you a score. But if you're trying to win 5 games in a World Cup, better off with guys who might not have that insane ton in them like three of those guys might (sorry Josh) but you can back to contribute more consistently. And if TJB is right, and Marsh + Maxwell are picked as batsman, my god that is an indictment on where that side is where there are no better options.

I mean, they'll still beat NZ by 200 runs in the pool stages but there's almost no chance they are there for the semis. Such a sub-par side.
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
The issue with Australia's batting order is it is rife with part-time performers. Marsh, Inglis, Maxwell, Stoinis, these are guys you might rely on once a tournament to get you a score. But if you're trying to win 5 games in a World Cup, better off with guys who might not have that insane ton in them like three of those guys might (sorry Josh) but you can back to contribute more consistently. And if TJB is right, and Marsh + Maxwell are picked as batsman, my god that is an indictment on where that side is where there are no better options.

I mean, they'll still beat NZ by 200 runs in the pool stages but there's almost no chance they are there for the semis. Such a sub-par side.
Dropping Labu before the World Cup and then picking him back was also a major mistake by the Aussie selectors destroying the stability of the team. It should have been a top 4 of Warner, Head, Steve Smith and Labu followed by Carey who are consistently playing till the tourney and getting into it well settled.

But the experiment with no-rounders like Marsh, Maxwell, Stoinis, Green, Agar etc. by the selectors did not allow this stability. Only 1 or 2 of these guys should have been playing and that too at 7 or may be 6 as batting all-rounders. Not higher than that.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
I'm worried about the man managment in general honestly. It feels like we have no idea what the middle order should even look like, and where moving deckchairs on the titanic and panicking like idiots in an attempt to fix it.

Green got runs in the warm-up game for the first time since the ipl, then we drop him after one bad game. Maxwell has spent the whole prep as a backend #7 hitter, gets injured, comes back for the WC and we magically decide to make him bat every middle order position that's not #7 and be our second spinner, massively upping his workload with no build up. It's horrible msnagment on basically every level. I don't mind Carey for Inglis, even if Carey got a good ball early last game. Inglis is a better player of spin. The issue is that after shuffling assigned positions in the 1st game, we completely changed the lineup for the second.

Now where in no man's land with it all cause stoinis got sawn off by the umpire 4 balls in and Inglis got a jaffa 4th ball. Dropping them after one game given the way they got out is really harsh and poor managment, but at the same time we just got smashed again and there cheap dismissals played a part. IMO, it should have been 5.Green 6.Carey 7.Maxwell for the first game, and if we where that spooked by the spin collapse Inglis comes in for Carey cause he's better against spin and we go 5.Inglis/Green 6.Green/Inglis 7. Maxwell. Instead we panicked and we've now placed ourselves in a self made tomb.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Dropping Labu before the World Cup and then picking him back was also a major mistake by the Aussie selectors destroying the stability of the team. It should have been a top 4 of Warner, Head, Steve Smith and Labu followed by Carey who are consistently playing till the tourney and getting into it well settled.

But the experiment with no-rounders like Marsh, Maxwell, Stoinis, Green, Agar etc. by the selectors did not allow this stability. Only 1 or 2 of these guys should have been playing and that too at 7 or may be 6 as batting all-rounders. Not higher than that.
Isn't it Marsh because Head is injured?

I don't follow Australian cricket particularly closely but I imagine bringing back Labu would've been because they just have no bonafide run scorers in their top order. You can't win World Cups with match winners. Labuschagne isn't that, but at least he might contribute. I totally get the argument that he scored 46 off 74 and that's not worth a pinch of either, but at least he's someone to bat around.

But yeah, I agree - you can't carry Marsh, Maxwell, Stoinis etc around guys like Warner and Smith who are past their peaks anyway. It's a recipe for disaster. Although they just don't have any better options. They can shuffle the deck chairs on the iceberg-bound vessel all they want, but it's bound to sink.

And anyone who senses schadenfreude, I strongly refute this.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Also, the whole "maxwell is a no rounder thing" is horseshit. He averaged 42 @130 batting in that 7 role and bailed us out so many times it's not funny. Just look at that series in England in 2020 or the first game of our tour of SL. The fact that everyone's turned on mitch marsh after 2 bad games is ridiculous aswell. He was averaging 40+ and smashing the ball everywhere while opening the batting before this wc. Two fails and now everyone thinks he's comparable to stoinis.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Isn't it Marsh because Head is injured?

I don't follow Australian cricket particularly closely but I imagine bringing back Labu would've been because they just have no bonafide run scorers in their top order. You can't win World Cups with match winners. Labuschagne isn't that, but at least he might contribute. I totally get the argument that he scored 46 off 74 and that's not worth a pinch of either, but at least he's someone to bat around.

But yeah, I agree - you can't carry Marsh, Maxwell, Stoinis etc around guys like Warner and Smith who are past their peaks anyway. It's a recipe for disaster. Although they just don't have any better options. They can shuffle the deck chairs on the iceberg-bound vessel all they want, but it's bound to sink.

And anyone who senses schadenfreude, I strongly refute this.
Where's the evidence that Smith and Warner are past their peak in ODI'S? Warner's been great, and Smith made 80 odd one game before the WC. Where not "carrying" maxwell and marsh FFS, there half the reason we where so highly rated going in despite the losses in SA and IND and the head injury.
 

ashley bach

Cricketer Of The Year
All the talk about the balance of the side etc is all well and good but really Australia simply need to start playing better.
In particular their batsman who, to put it mildly are batting like ***** at the moment.
 
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