****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[Pigeon]

Ok my take after all these statistical orgies. **** stats. I would pay out of my nose to see a Lara on the move. He could destroy any attack on his day, be it McGrath or anyone. And despite being a hardcore Tendulkar fan, I can say Lara was easily the more talented of the two. He was bursting with inborn genius but did not utilise it properly due to disciplinary problems in personal life. Tendulkar used his genius to the hilt through diligent practise and hence was the more consistent of the two.

 

[Pigeon]

No wonder McGrath rated Lara as the best batsman he bowled to slightly ahead of Tendulkar.

I don't think McGrath used statsguru to arrive at that conclusion.

 

[Pratters]

didn't Ambrose play for Antigua?

Nah, Leeward Isles till very late in his career.

For Cricket Archive -

Leeward Islands (Main FC: 1985/86-1999/00); Northamptonshire (Main FC: 1989-1996); Leeward Islands (Main ListA: 1985/86-1998/99); Northamptonshire (Main ListA: 1989-1996); Antigua and Barbuda (Main ListA: 1998/99)

 

[honestbharani]

ah.. then I must re-read that article.. Although I seem to remember that it mentioned Ambrose. Gotta check it out.

 

[Pigeon]

didn't Ambrose play for Antigua?

Nope. Atleast according to Cricket Archive.

Cricket Archive

 

[MrIncredible]

Yes, even though I feel Lara was a better batsman overall I would consider Tendulkar to be more solid against sheer pace. They both ended up with similar figures against the best pacers though. Against spin, Lara is slightly better IMO.

Few worldclass batsmen are completely comfortable against express pace. Some, like Yousuf and Hayden, are reduced to sheer bunnies, while Ponting, Lara, and Tendulkar were merely good/decent. Guys like Steve Waugh, Border, Chappell and Viv would top my list of batsmen best against fast bowling.

Waugh started off in the 80s as a walking wicket for the great pacemen but turned in around in the 90s vs Amby, Donald, WW etc and pasted them all. Yeah he would top my list vs pacers as would G Chappell, Viv, and even Sobers.

 

[subshakerz]

Overall in all series vs 95 to 2005/06. I'd say McGrath won more contest TBF.

WI 95 - McGrath won for sure
AUS 96/97 - McGrath won most battles. Lara scored a hundred in the dead rubber 5th test
WI 99 - Even
AUS 2000 - McGrath
WI 2003 - McGrath was out of form, so this shouldn't be considered.
AUS 05/06 - Hmm it was a riveting battle. Lara got some bad decisions etc. But Lara wasn't dominant vs McGrath in the 1st two test. So i'll call it even here as well.

If you are not counting 2003 as McGrath was out of form, why count 1996 and 2000 when Lara was woefully out of form as well? And I think you are missing the point, McGrath was as succesfull against Tendulkar as he was against Lara. Lara was dismissed 15 times in 24 tests, Tendulkar 6 times in 10 tests.

Plus he not so prolific runs vs PAK/SA in those countries. Not scoring a hundred againts Donald/Pollock - Wasim/Waqar.

Except that Lara and Tendulkar ended up with pretty much the same records against these attacks.

 

[Pratters]

Ok my take after all these statistical orgies. **** stats. I would pay out of my nose to see a Lara on the move. He could destroy any attack on his day, be it McGrath or anyone. And despite being a hardcore Tendulkar fan, I can say Lara was easily the more talented of the two. He was bursting with inborn genius but did not utilise it properly due to disciplinary problems in personal life. Tendulkar used his genius to the hilt through diligent practise and hence was the more consistent of the two.

People over state Lara's lack of discipline.

I agree with Ian Chappell when he says -

"Lara had a short phase where we went crazy, but apart from that he's been a class player,"

Lara still finished with an average of 52.88.

 

[honestbharani]

Cricket Archive

The list of scores are as follows (all against Leeward Isles)

Season	 Score 
87/88	 14 
87/88	 22 
89/90	 27 
89/90	 15 
90/91	 7 
90/91	 71 
93/94	 2 
93/94	 84 
97/98	 20 
97/98	 1 
TOTAL	 263 
Avg	 26.30

and was dismissed only once by Ambrose...


And FTR, that 27 and 15 was on a pitch when neither team crossed 130 in the 4 innings... 27 was in fact the top score, IIRC...


EDIT: NO, completely wrong.. mixed up games... Pitch much better for batting in the second innings for both teams. But 27 was the top score out of a first innings score of 87 on a green track, according to reports.

 

[Pigeon]

People over state Lara's lack of discipline.

I agree with Ian Chappell when he says -

"Lara had a short phase where we went crazy, but apart from that he's been a class player,"

Lara still finished with an average of 52.88.

Oh yes, that's precisely why I said his lack of application did in for him. He almost always relied on his sheer genius to get him through. That's precisely why he could run up mountains of score whether he was 24 or 34. That's precisely why he could also run up terrible scores time after time against weaker sides as well.

 

[Pigeon]

and was dismissed only once by Ambrose...


And FTR, that 27 and 15 was on a pitch when neither team crossed 130 in the 4 innings... 27 was in fact the top score, IIRC...


EDIT: NO, completely wrong.. mixed up games... Pitch much better for batting in the second innings for both teams. But 27 was the top score out of a first innings score of 87 on a green track, according to reports.

I did not say he got owned by Ambrose did I?

Even McGrath for that matter dismissed Tendulkar only 6 times in his entire career.

 

[Pratters]

I did not say he got owned by Ambrose did I?

Even McGrath for that matter dismissed Tendulkar only 6 times in his entire career.

6 times in the number of tests they played together is a fairly good proportion. Not comparable to Ambrose-Lara at all.

 

[Pigeon]

6 times in the number of tests they played together is a fairly good proportion. Not comparable to Ambrose-Lara at all.

What can Ambrose do to the fact that lara used to get out early enough? It can safely be said Lara used to be put under pressure by Ambrose.

Without Ambrose, against the same Leewards Isles, he averaged 49!

 

[Pratters]

What can Ambrose do to the fact that lara used to get out early enough? It can safely be said Lara used to be put under pressure by Ambrose.

Without Ambrose, against the same Leewards Isles, he averaged 49!

That's just coincidence. It is not like Ambrose dismissed him in the games he played for Leeward Islands. It is subjective, regardless, and not conclusive.

 

[Pratters]

Quick stat -

India has never lost a test in which Rajesh Chauhan has played.


Yes, the opponents succumbed to his pressure.

 

[Pigeon]

That's just coincidence. It is not like Ambrose dismissed him in the games he played for Leeward Islands. It is subjective, regardless, and not conclusive.

It would be a rare coincidence Always easy to believe that he used to be pressurised and get out at the other end. Anyways, that's it from me.

 

[Pigeon]

Quick stat -

India has never lost a test in which Rajesh Chauhan has played.


Yes, the opponents succumbed to his pressure.

That's an awesome call to make. Remember Rajesh Chauhan was actively invovled in India's rare and famous whitewash of England in 93. 3-0.

 

[Pratters]

That's an awesome call to make. Remember Rajesh Chauhan was actively invovled in India's rare and famous whitewash of England in 93. 3-0.

I remember that series very well and with much fondness. Attended the test in Eden Gardens. Gatting batted so well in the series, Kumble-Chauhan-Raju were superb under Azhar. The Gooch ki kat gayee Mooch series (The series where Gooch lost his moustache).

 

[Pigeon]

I remember that series very well and with much fondness. Attended the test in Eden Gardens. Gatting batted so well in the series, Kumble-Chauhan-Raju were superb under Azhar. The Gooch ki kat gayee Mooch series (The series where Gooch lost his moustache).

I loved that slogan.

 

[0RI0N]

no way was 99 even. That was Lara Vs the whole Aussie bowling line up and Lara won!!!


And why is that McGrath being out of form wont be considered and Lara being woefully out of form in 96 with all those disputes with the board and Richie Richardson will be considered?


Fact is:

95 in Windies - Even
96 in Aus - McGrath easily (that dead rubber hundred happens to be one of the greatest knocks of Lara. It was the last of the really quick Perth pitches and he was head and shoulders above the other batsmen in that test)
99 - Lara
2000- McGrath
2003- Lara
2005 - Lara

this guy knows what he is talking about.
That 97 WACA pitch had wide cracks and bounce.
The last of the brutal WACA pitches.
Lara's 132 should of M0M'ed.
CEL Ambrose got that award.
Tendulkar can't play those super classic innings.
He can't.
He has always worried about his average,getting the red ink.
Lara crashed a double hundred in a day in 0Z(Adelaide 05),this after
a) getting bad decisions
b) being out of form
c) coming in at 19/2 on a pitch that was offering help to bowlers.
SRT takes 2 day to score 240 odd facing a weaker bowling attack.

Massive player though is SRT but
Lara greatest amongst his peers