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*Official* India Tour of England 2018

Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Borges said:
They never looked beyond Ashwin and Jadeja as the spin options in those days. Credit to Rahane and Kumble for showing them that there are spinners like Kuldeep Yadav,

Likewise, England might do well to look beyond Moeen Ali as their second spin option.
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They already have in tests looked beyond Ali with Crane, Bess and Leach.

The issue is Ali's batting at 7 in ODI (as against his batting at 8 in tests where Woakes was often 9) - Bess may develop into an allrounder in List A too - but he has played stuff all List A games. Leach isn't a batsman at all.

Do you end Ali's whole ODI career just because of Indian batsmen? With respect, I think that is a tad myopic. They won't play India every week. (Just this month and next months, and a bit of September).

Cullinan had a similar career problem with Warne. I don't think you throw the entire career away.
 
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Borges

Borges

International Regular
Mr Miyagi said:
Do you end Ali's whole ODI career just because of Indian batsmen? With respect, I think that is a tad myopic.
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They can pick three spinners, including Ali, in the squad; and decide on whether to play Ali or not depending on who they are playing against and their assessment of the wicket.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Mr Miyagi said:
Do you end Ali's whole ODI career just because of Indian batsmen?
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I think you're blowing the Indian batsmen thing out of proportion a bit too. His career economy rate in ODIs is lower against India than it is against all other sides.

They targeted him in the two T20s he played last week* (where his bowling is less good more generally anyway) and they'll probably try to do the same thing in the ODIs now that it worked, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work all the time and that he's just allergic to Indian batsmen.
*Actually he only played one; I remember it being two for some reason.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Borges said:
They can pick three spinners, including Ali, in the squad; and decide on whether to play Ali or not depending on who they are playing against and their assessment of the wicket.
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Doesn't solve the batting problem dropping Ali brings in when he bats 7.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Prince EWS said:
I think you're blowing the Indian batsmen thing out of proportion a bit too. His career economy rate in ODIs is lower against India than it is against all other sides.
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Yeah well I have looked at the scorecards, there was a Rahane (and Binny once) problem for India that they don't have any more in the 4 games from 2014 and 2015. He went at over 6 in India in the 2017 matches (bowling 6.1, 6 and 8 overs only).

Prince EWS said:
They targeted him in the two T20s he played last week (where his bowling is less good more generally anyway) and they'll probably try to do the same thing in the ODIs now that it worked, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work all the time and that he's just allergic to Indian batsmen.
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Not all batsmen, He clearly loved bowling to Rahane. (Dhoni fans - be warned, this isn't pretty).

6th Match, Carlton Mid One-Day International Tri-Series at Perth, Jan 30 2015 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

3rd Match (D/N), Carlton Mid One-Day International Tri-Series at Brisbane, Jan 20 2015 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo (top order collapse)

5th ODI, India tour of England at Leeds, Sep 5 2014 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo (No Rahane but top order collapse)

4th ODI, India tour of England at Birmingham, Sep 2 2014 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo (Rahane starts to punish him eventually in this game, though)

I think the current Indian batting line up is more explosive than it was then. Even if Raina is back in the mix and Dhoni is still around. Rahane was a weak link. And top order collapses aren't a thing England ought to rely on.

Ali could bounce back as you suggest, but I am not blowing it out of proportion, the selectors dropped him from the t20 team because India smacked him. They have the trust issues that matter. Not me.

This scorecard just screams of Morgan lacking trust in him against the Indian batsmen even when he's doing better than the rest (no mention of injury in the comments section - Dhoni hits a 6 and Ali is pulled from bowling again):

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ngland-2nd-odi-england-tour-of-india-2016-17/

I've seen it with NZ's KW to Todd Astle. Or Smith with some spinners he's been given over the years.

Ali may play, he may bowl his full 10 overs, but I bet Morgan and the selectors are mulling it over this week before Thursday's toss and team sheets provided.
 
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J

Jack1

International Debutant
India are a very good side. I do think England's obvious weak point is their bowling. I imagine England's batting line up would smash their bowling attack absolutely everywhere to be honest. India's batting wouldn't look quite as good if they had to face their own bowling. That's the beauty of a team though at the end of the day haha. The problem is the more overs in the game the more this is compounded for England. This is why I fancy India in the ODI series now. We shall see I guess. No matter what these are number 1 and 2 ODI teams for me, we will see what happens and who proves to be the best in these conditions.
 
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J

Jack1

International Debutant
garylyon said:
Hales and Buttler are too low at 6 and 7. You need Buttler at 6 and Hales top of the order but since you can't have both without dropping Root I say drop Hales for Ali (considering that England are a bowler short anyway). He is an underrated hitter and can be economical sometimes but that'll work if he gets to bowl at Indian middle order. If Willey, Plunkett don't take top order wickets early he's going to have really bad series.
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Ali is good in my opinion. He's economical and a good hitter yes. The question is should he play against India's batting line up? Hales has to bat 4 or higher. Buttler 6 is fine in ODIs, he's a great finisher.

Talking ODIs here
 
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J

Jack1

International Debutant
Mr Miyagi said:
All I know is that Stokes was cleared to bowl, and he should have bowled his wide yorkers again at the back end. Ball was awful.
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That's what I thought. Stokes bowled a great first over. Then he got hit for a boundary early in the second as he changed plan slightly. Stokes has the best skill set to bowl at the death probably (which is hugely ironic considering he blew up mentally in the t20 world cup final and just bowled in the slot over and over). He's probably most likely of the lot to execute the wide yorker plan as you say and already proved he had the form to do it yesterday. 2-0-11-0 is a good job with the ball and should have bowled out. Poor captaincy from Morgan.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
trundler said:
The village idiots have banded together. Horrifying.
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John and I have always understood and respected one another in cricket discussion, even when we disagree, let alone agree.

If you don't understand, let alone respect, us that's on your limitations as human being.

You can join TJB in ad hominem only posts instead of talking cricket, like this one. Seek the last word - he always typically does. Or go with "irrelevant" snowflake accusations and swear and cuss. A personal favourite of mine.

John and I talk cricket, you want to talk people like John and me, take it elsewhere. It is off topic, and rather boring. I don't feel the need to talk about myself, I prefer cricket.
 
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trundler

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hey I don't normally engage in such posting but the urge was too strong to resist. Let's say you're both allowed one insult on me. :laugh:
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
trundler said:
Hey I don't normally engage in such posting but the urge was too strong to resist. Let's say you're both allowed one insult on me. :laugh:
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I don't care to. I'm here to talk cricket.

That's the difference between you and I it would seem. My urge is to talk cricket, your urges are different.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
***** said:
Lmao you literally just dissed sledger in the other thread :laugh:
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I never. I merely referred comments in an "off topic" thread that you believe I do not read directing him to be happy.

That was not an insult. I have a tweed-ish sports coat myself (none with leather arm patches but it is a goal that I would wear proudly), and a flat cap, and sweaters. I even have have cardigans. I don't have a volvo. But close enough.
 
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Daemon

Daemon

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John's a good poster. Unfortunately we got off on the wrong foot when I wrote him off for picking Russel in an ATG ODI XI.
 
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