*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[TheJediBrah]

England should prepare limited overs wickets which have a wee bit in them for the quick bowlers; these kind of surfaces are alien to them.

England's game plan, batting especially, is heavily reliant on batting friendly conditions though.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

England should prepare limited overs wickets which have a wee bit in them for the quick bowlers; these kind of surfaces are alien to them.

Interesting, typically they wouldn't because that would nullify Hales, Morgan and Roy. Their game is built for flat pitches.

And it would help India before the tests get used to England.

But - it may be England's better chance, roads are not going to intimidate Sharma, Dhawan, Rahul, and Kohli.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

You actually think Stokes is a good death bowler, that's cute

 

[Mr Miyagi]

You actually think Stokes is a good death bowler, that's cute

Heh, well he's no Bumrah, but he did a fair job at the IPL of late, and he was nailing his wide yorkers yesterday very well. Bowled 4 of them in his first over.

He was a much better option than Ball. Even if Carlos "remember the name" Brathwaite happened.

 

[garylyon]

Hales and Buttler are too low at 6 and 7. You need Buttler at 6 and Hales top of the order but since you can't have both without dropping Root I say drop Hales for Ali (considering that England are a bowler short anyway). He is an underrated hitter and can be economical sometimes but that'll work if he gets to bowl at Indian middle order. If Willey, Plunkett don't take top order wickets early he's going to have really bad series.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Hales and Buttler are too low at 6 and 7. You need Buttler at 6 and Hales top of the order but since you can't have both without dropping Root I say drop Hales for Ali (considering that England are a bowler short anyway). He is an underrated hitter and can be economical sometimes but that'll work if he gets to bowl at Indian middle order. If Willey, Plunkett don't take top order wickets early he's going to have really bad series.

Oh - I am sure they'd change the batting order if Hales plays for Ali that he goes upto 3 or 4 with Root, with Morgan at 5, Stokes at 6 or 7 with Buttler.

But it is an interesting dilemma for England. Will they trust Ali to bowl to Indian batsmen or bring in Hales or a bowler? Cos Sam Curran won't offer much threat with the ball, and his batting is unproven at this level. A bowler leaves Willey batting 7 which is too high imo. Hales leaves Root and Stokes to bowl 10 overs.

I agree Ali is underrated and important to England ODI, but Indian batsmen have less patience to let what they would consider a part time off spinner bowl at them on flat pitches not conducive to spin, the way Ali has bowled to everyone else.

Unless they get out slogging to Ali, he really is in for a tough day versus Indian batsmen on flat pitches. But England may just have to bite the bullet - first game up anyway.

 

[Borges]

Why is it that it must be Ali as the second spinner? It is not as if he brings a lot to the table as a batsman; everyone knows by now that he is a dead duck if you bowl at his body.

 

[garylyon]

Oh - I am sure they'd change the batting order if Hales plays for Ali that he goes upto 3 or 4 with Root, with Morgan at 5, Stokes at 6 or 7 with Buttler.

But it is an interesting dilemma for England. Will they trust Ali to bowl to Indian batsmen or bring in Hales or a bowler? Cos Sam Curran won't offer much threat with the ball, and his batting is unproven at this level. A bowler leaves Willey batting 7 which is too high imo. Hales leaves Root and Stokes to bowl 10 overs.

I agree Ali is underrated and important to England ODI, but Indian batsmen have less patience to let what they would consider a part time off spinner bowl at them on flat pitches not conducive to spin, the way Ali has bowled to everyone else.

Unless they get out slogging to Ali, he really is in for a tough day versus Indian batsmen on flat pitches. But England may just have to bite the bullet - first game up anyway.

I thought you meant England will be batting in the order that you listed. I'm actually okay with Stokes at 7 and a top order of Hales, Roy and Bairstow but like you I'm not too sure about Stokes and Root bowling 10 overs either, especially because England of late aren't known for bowling out even their frontline bowlers except Rashid. Willey, Plunkett manage to bowl out their ten overs pretty occasionally but that's usually not an issue given that they usually have around 7 bowling options. If Hales is in the bowling attack as it stands now is going to leave England pretty vulnerable particularly towards the death.

 

[garylyon]

Why is it that it must be Ali as the second spinner? It is not as if he brings a lot to the table as a batsman; everyone knows by now that he is a dead duck if you bowl at his body.

Did you watch his century against the West Indies?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I thought you meant England will be batting in the order that you listed. I'm actually okay with Stokes at 7 and a top order of Hales, Roy and Bairstow but like you I'm not too sure about Stokes and Root bowling 10 overs either, especially because England of late aren't known for bowling out even their frontline bowlers except Rashid. Willey, Plunkett manage to bowl out their ten overs pretty occasionally but that's usually not an issue given that they usually have around 7 bowling options. If Hales is in the bowling attack as it stands now is going to leave England pretty vulnerable particularly towards the death.

It is a curly one for England isn't it. Woakes always leaves a hole, but Ali's batting value in jeopardy due to his bowling to Indian batsmen are now compounding it. Tough decision for the #1 ODI team to not lose at home to India here.

 

[Borges]

England are still the better ODI side, and I expect them to win the ODI series; though the games would be a lot closer than they were for the Australia series. Hopefully.

We are paying so much attention to England bowling only because their middle order batting was a flop show in the T20 series. Their batting was essentially Buttler, Roy, Hales, nothing. Morgan, Bairstow, Root et al would bat a lot better in the ODIs,

 

[Mr Miyagi]

This is a touch arrogant from Geroge Dobell.

India lay down their marker as spin takes a backseat - ESPNcricinfo

Maybe on surfaces where the ball nips around laterally, the likes of Rohit Sharma and Virat Kohli can be contained. But on these pitches? Where batsmen can hit through the line and the boundaries can be cleared with relative ease? They look daunting. And MS Dhoni didn't even make it to the crease.

Lets see how Roy, Hales and Morgan handle a nipping ball.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

England are still the better ODI side, and I expect them to win the ODI series; though the games would be a lot closer than they were for the Australia series. Hopefully.

We are paying so much attention to England bowling only because their middle order batting was a flop show in the T20 series. Their batting was essentially Buttler, Roy, Hales, nothing. Morgan, Bairstow, Root et al would bat a lot better in the ODIs,

I think this is going to be a great series, and I am not predicting a winner in the ODI's. Woakes for me is a huge blow to England. India has sorted out replacing Bumrah well enough based on the t20 series.

Ali is a headache that the Indian batting class has created, its not like Ali has forgotten how to bowl, it is just he is outgunned by sublime Indian batsmen of spin on flat pitches. I would not be the least bit surprised if India win.

This must be a tight series even with the bookies. Any result is unsurprising from here.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah England's problem is simple. They have the best chance of winning on batting friendly wickets. But only when the opposition has significantly inferior batting (like Australia atm) or only when they are chasing against an opposition with similar batting skills.

They need better bowling variety to be able to negotiate all circumstances. Adil Rashid can't do it by himself, even on his good days.

 

[garylyon]

I think its very, very debatable that England are the better ODI side. They definitely have a problem with bowling, especially at the death and middle overs. India with Bumrah otoh have a much more formidable bowling attack, a comparably explosive but far more reliable top order but inferior middle and lower order. Yes its going to be a really competitive contest and I don't usually say this but this ODI series should have been longer than 3 matches.

 

[Daemon]

Was the last series between the two where Jadhav was making runs for fun? That was a pretty closely fought series as well iirc.

 

[garylyon]

Yeah. Loved the game where Kohli and Jadhav chased down 360 after being 65 for 4 down in 15 overs iirc. One of my all time fav odi games.

 

[garylyon]

Yeah. Loved the game where Kohli and Jadhav chased down 360 after being 65 for 4 down in 15 overs iirc. One of my all time fav odi games.

350*

1st ODI (D/N), England tour of India at Pune, Jan 15 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

 

[Mr Miyagi]

350*

1st ODI (D/N), England tour of India at Pune, Jan 15 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Heh, 18 months later and:

no Ashwin,
no Jadeja,
no Yuvraj,
no Jadhav.

Man BCCI turnover a lot of players under Kohli.

 

[Borges]

They never looked beyond Ashwin and Jadeja as the spin options in those days. Credit to Rahane and Kumble for showing them that there are spinners like Kuldeep Yadav,

Likewise, England might do well to look beyond Moeen Ali as their second spin option.