*Official* India Tour of Australia 2018/19

[Spark]

Yeah. I stand corrected here.

As a general rule, with very few exceptions (Hobart, maybe? But that's mostly to do with the weather) the only word that should be inserted in front of "-friendly" when it comes to Australian pitches is "batsmen".

 

[Burgey]

Sydney is a more spin friendly pitch than Dharamsala or Bangalore. It is not like Ashwin gets spin friendly pitches all the time in Asia and Lyon never gets in SENA.

As an scg member in good standing, I can tell you that whilst this was true up until about 1998, it certainly isn’t now.

 

[Spark]

Honestly I still think that much of the apparently generational/systemic problem in finding good Test batsmen outside of freaks like Smith and Warner is down to the homogenisation of domestic pitches.

 

[GotSpin]

Honestly I still think that much of the apparently generational/systemic problem in finding good Test batsmen outside of freaks like Smith and Warner is down to the homogenisation of domestic pitches.

Aren't the domestic wickets quite lively though? I don't know if that it explains it tbh

 

[Spark]

Aren't the domestic wickets quite lively though? I don't know if that it explains it tbh

It's more than there's no consistent character to the pitches which concerns me. Too often the pitches will essentially vary in the same way across the country from a season-to-season basis which is how you get a season where every pitch has bowlers like Butterworth taking loads of wickets all the time. It doesn't really batsmen's ability to adjust to new conditions and learn how to construct Test innings in difficult conditions - which, as we saw in Adelaide, is a serious problem with so many 20s and 30s.

I'd much rather that we have 6 or 7 completely different pitches at domestic level that stay consistent from year to year.

 

[Red]

No it's not. He's been ordinary for a long time in Tests, and personally I was seriously questioning his place prior to this series even starting. It's not a kneejerk reaction.

Bizarre- 3 reasons off the top of my head.

He just took five wickets in the first test. More than either Hazelwood or Cummins (who took 6 between them)

We're going to Perth next.

The last thing we want to change is a functioning bowling unit who contained India to scores of 250 and 300, the bowling is not the issue in this XI.

 

[GotSpin]

Doesn't help that our bowlers get less rest and actually have to go out and bat to save the innings

 

[Spark]

Bizarre- 3 reasons off the top of my head.

He just took five wickets in the first test. More than either Hazelwood or Cummins (who took 6 between them)

We're going to Perth next.

The last thing we want to change is a functioning bowling unit who contained India to scores of 250 and 300, the bowling is not the issue in this XI.

I mean, it's peak scoreboard analysis to think that Starc outbowled Hazlewood or Cummins simply because he got some cheap and lucky poles, whilst ignoring his awful new ball spells.

 

[GotSpin]

It's more than there's no consistent character to the pitches which concerns me. Too often the pitches will essentially vary in the same way across the country from a season-to-season basis which is how you get a season where every pitch has bowlers like Butterworth taking loads of wickets all the time. It doesn't really batsmen's ability to adjust to new conditions and learn how to construct Test innings in difficult conditions - which, as we saw in Adelaide, is a serious problem with so many 20s and 30s.

I'd much rather that we have 6 or 7 completely different pitches at domestic level that stay consistent from year to year.

I'm sure I read a while ago that the chief curator job for each ground just circulates between the same bunch of guys

 

[Spark]

I'm sure I read a while ago that the chief curator job for each ground just circulates between the same bunch of guys

Yep, very much so.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hazelwood and Cummins both bowled way better than Starc regardless of what the figures say. A few cheap wickets at the end of the innings doesn't change the fact that he released pressure at his end constantly.

 

[GotSpin]

IMO we ideally just want wickets that bounce a lot. Slow and low makes for both poor development and viewing

 

[Spark]

Hazelwood and Cummins both bowled way better than Starc regardless of what the figures say. A few cheap wickets at the end of the innings doesn't change the fact that he released pressure at his end constantly.

I was driving and listening on the radio when he bowled that second new ball spell on the first day and honestly it was difficult to focus on the road because of how mad I was getting at the legside trash

Actually an object lesson in why I don't care that much about bowling figures.

 

[h_hurricane]

Why should matches in SL be included when they're not relevant to the comparison?

Because it is one of the 3-4 countries he has performed. If you take out Ind, SL, Bang and WI, all you have is SENA. And Ashwin averages 43 there as you have mentioned.

Lillee averages some 90 in Asia + WI.

Neither of these stats are reflective of the calibre of these bowlers ( among the very best in pitches suiting them)

 

[h_hurricane]

As an scg member in good standing, I can tell you that whilst this was true up until about 1998, it certainly isn’t now.

If we play 2 spinners here then, we are s**ted.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm sure I read a while ago that the chief curator job for each ground just circulates between the same bunch of guys

Well considering that producer of flat terrible pitches at Brisbane Kevin Mitchell has been replaced by producer of flat terrible pitches at Melbourne David Sandurski I think there's some merit to that idea. I read Graeme Swann recently blaming England's rather thin spin stocks on the homogenisation of English pitches with Ongar loam (loamy soils generally produce the most easy paced, batting friendly pitches) in the late nineties and early two thousands under Harry Brind.

There needs to be new guys with independent ideas.

 

[Spark]

If we play 2 spinners here then, we are s**ted.

Tbh you probably still should. It's not like spinners are at a massive disadvantage compared to fast bowlers, and having two spinners will help manage workload on what is more likely than not going to be a 500 par pitch if recent history is any guide.

 

[Red]

I mean, it's peak scoreboard analysis to think that Starc outbowled Hazlewood or Cummins simply because he got some cheap and lucky poles, whilst ignoring his awful new ball spells.

It's not just "scoreboard analysis". I watched most of the test. Starc can bowl dross at times, but he always almost takes wickets. His last ten tests have yielded 5, 3, 1 , 2, 1, 9, 3, 5, 8, 6 wickets

Whether he bowls **** or not, he takes wickets. And he takes wickets when others wont/cant. He's pretty valuable.

 

[Spark]

It's not just "scoreboard analysis". I watched most of the test. Starc can bowl dross at times, but he always almost takes wickets. His last ten tests have yielded 5, 3, 1 , 2, 1, 9, 3, 5, 8, 6 wickets per test.

Whether he bowls **** or not, he takes wickets. And he takes wickets when others wont/cant. He's pretty valuable.

His **** makes it much more difficult for the others to take wickets, because they struggle to build up pressure when the batsmen will get freebies from the other end. Which makes his contribution significantly more negative than the scoreboard suggests.

I obviously wouldn't drop him but there's no denying that his bowling was well below par.

 

[Starfighter]

Plus he conceded a whole stack of byes which won't appear in his analysis. Felt sorry for Paine there.