***Official*** India in South Africa 2017/18

[anaksr]

Kohli: "I'm saying that we don't decide XI according to the results."

What ******* is he smoking these days.

 

[anaksr]

Should they have Parthiv keep in the next match????

Yeah you are right. I'll have Dinesh from Chennai than Parthiv in SA. Sad to see that even after these many years Indian team still hanging around these two.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Should be a serious prize on offer for the poster who can correctly predict India's X1 for the 3rd test.

 

[Burner]

Kohli post match sour-grapes after a defeat is just the best. I expect we will have to see a lot more of it in the future away tours of India considering how Kohli wouldn't know a winning XI if it sat on his face.

 

[ankitj]

Chetan Narula
@chetannarula
Fiery press conference from Virat Kohli today. Counter-questioned me about "what is India's best XI" and later asked a South African journalist about "how many times SA have come close to winning in India". #SAvInd

oh dear.

Kohli keeps reminding at regular intervals what a douchebag he is and why I was right in hating his mere sight when he first arrived on international stage.

 

[ankitj]

Azharuddin had a couple of sensational hundreds in that series.

He scored one in 70 odd balls hitting Klusener for 5 fours in an over. IIRC it was in the same match that Klusener came back and took 8.

Yes, and followed it up with an equally impressive hundred when India travelled to South Africa.

 

[weldone]

Kohli: "I'm saying that we don't decide XI according to the results."

What ******* is he smoking these days.

Haha ya result decides itself after looking at your selected XIs.

 

[weldone]

It'll be so good if Rahane is brought back for the 3rd test and shuts Kohli up for a while with a memorable performance.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Regarding Kohli's "how many times SA have come close to winning in India", South Africa won an entire series 2-0 in 1999-00 and achieved a couple of 1-1 draws (2007-08, 2009-10). That is a lot more than what India have done in South Africa, the best being an 1-1 draw in 2010-11. Test Aggregate,

South Africa in India: 5 wins, 8 losses
India in South Africa: 2 wins, 10 losses (including this current series).

 

[weldone]

I think Kohli was talking about SA's last series in India.

But yea, overall that presser was pathetic.

 

[Motorwada]

Regarding Kohli's "how many times SA have come close to winning in India", South Africa won an entire series 2-0 in 1999-00 and achieved a couple of 1-1 draws (2007-08, 2009-10). That is a lot more than what India have done in South Africa, the best being an 1-1 draw in 2010-11. Test Aggregate,

South Africa in India: 5 wins, 8 losses
India in South Africa: 2 wins, 10 losses (including this current series).

That includes the 90s though when we weren't as good. Post 2000s I believe it's the same (2-6).

 

[weldone]

That includes the 90s though when we weren't as good. Post 2000s I believe it's the same (2-6).

Haha classic 'we weren't good so ignore those stats' argument

 

[Motorwada]

Haha classic 'we weren't good so ignore those stats' argument

No one's saying ignore those stats. But taking those stats as a barometer of the better side is like taking say India's 1930s record against England or England's 1990s record against Australia or everyone's recent record against the Windies (You don't quote Windies 80s records to signify they are still a good team).

India has been one of the top teams since the early 2000s and SA too have been a top team then (as was earlier in the 90s) and both county's away records in each other's countries are similar during that period. I guess the argument being made is who is the current better team. No point in talking up old records as it is undisputed that 90s SA was better just like quoting records of the ATG WI or Aus teams is useless as no one is disputing those.

 

[Tec15]

No one's saying ignore those stats. But taking those stats as a barometer of the better side is like taking say India's 1930s record against England or England's 1990s record against Australia or everyone's recent record against the Windies (You don't quote Windies 80s records to signify they are still a good team).

India has been one of the top teams since the early 2000s and SA too have been a top team then (as was earlier in the 90s) and both county's away records in each other's countries are similar during that period. I guess the argument being made is who is the current better team. No point in talking up old records as it is undisputed that 90s SA was better just like quoting records of the ATG WI or Aus teams is useless as no one is disputing those.

Total nonsense. India were unbeaten at home from 1987 till the 2000 series where SA won 2-0. The "ATG" Aussie sides of the 90's were comprehensively beaten in India. They were not some minnows at home and those series absolutely count. Also before the 2015 series SA's record in India was an even won 5, lost nine. Absolutely BS revisionism to claim that "both county's away records in each other's countries are similar during that period."

SA have always done much better in India than India has done in SA. There is no scope for arguing against that fact.

 

[Motorwada]

Total nonsense. India were unbeaten at home from 1987 till the 2000 series where SA won 2-0. The "ATG" Aussie sides of the 90's were comprehensively beaten in India. They were not some minnows at home and those series absolutely count. Also before the 2015 series SA's record in India was an even won 5, lost nine. Absolutely BS revisionism to claim that "both county's away records in each other's countries are similar during that period."

SA have always done much better in India than India has done in SA. There is no scope for arguing against that fact.

Historically yes but then again historically most teams have struggled against the Windies. Also Australia only became ATG in 2000s. In 90s they have also lost in SL, in Pak, drawn in WI etc. Only post 99 WC they actually became the behemoth they were.

Thing is post that series (which was just post match fixing) when India actually become a good side SA have lost two series in India (0-1,0-3) and drawn two (1-1,1-1). India have lost three (1-2,0-1,0-2*) and drawn one (1-1). Both sides are at 2-6 in each other's conditions since then.

I am not arguing against the fact that SA has been better than India historically in each other's conditions, just laying credence to Virat's statement about South Africa not really performing well in India. Dredging up matches with the likes of Donald, Rhodes, Kirsten etc who have retired long ago has no place in this argument.

 

[S.Kennedy]

In 1999-00 when South Africa beat India in their own backyard, India had Laxman, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly and Kumble.

 

[Motorwada]

In 1999-00 when South Africa beat India in their own backyard, India had Laxman, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly and Kumble.

Not arguing against SA being better than India historically.

Also a separate point: 1999 Laxman was rubbish then (averaging 29). Quoting player names is useless without the context. India's 2011-12 team that lost to England at home were like an ATG Indian team with Sehwag, Sachin, Zaheer, Ashwin, Kohli, Pujara etc but they still lost. Names wise it looks extremely strong but half the team was done and the other half were just starting out. I guess similar could be the 2007 Ind win in England with Cook, Bell, Anderson all being young. Or the 2010-11 Ashes Australian team (Smith/Ponting in same lineup!!! with Clarke/Hussey) or the 2013-14 English team. Over a career those names look good but current context at time of series has to be seen.

 

[DriveClub]

Adding to indias batting woes their close in catching is pretty average as well. Can't be a good test team without improving their close catching ability

 

[DriveClub]

SA a better touring side than india any day. In subcontinent or outside subcontinent.

 

[Tec15]

Historically yes but then again historically most teams have struggled against the Windies. Also Australia only became ATG in 2000s. In 90s they have also lost in SL, in Pak, drawn in WI etc. Only post 99 WC they actually became the behemoth they were.

Thing is post that series (which was just post match fixing) when India actually become a good side SA have lost two series in India (0-1,0-3) and drawn two (1-1,1-1). India have lost three (1-2,0-1,0-2*) and drawn one (1-1). Both sides are at 2-6 in each other's conditions since then.

I am not arguing against the fact that SA has been better than India historically in each other's conditions, just laying credence to Virat's statement about South Africa not really performing well in India. Dredging up matches with the likes of Donald, Rhodes, Kirsten etc who have retired long ago has no place in this argument.

Ah, I love selective stats dredging to prove some sort of point.

But as it happens, you are wrong. You missed out on the 2001/02 series which SA won 1-0. And even that underestimates South Africa's superiority because it should have been 2-0, but India threw an almighty temper tantrum and the third test did not have test status (A taste of things to come from the BCCI)

So, even if we start by your preference of beginning the count after arbitrarily (and conveniently) leaving out the series where SA comprehensively won in India, they are still ahead during that time frame. In that time they have won 4 series at home (1-0, 2-1, 1-0, 2-0*) and drawn only once (1-1) with an overall record of 7-2 (Should actually be 8-2 remember, and with the whitewash still to come to make it 9-2 potentially). India in contrast have won only 2 series at home (1-0, 3-0) and drawn twice (Both 1-1) with an overall record of 6-2. Four series wins at home and two draws away seem to be superior to two wins at home and only one draw away. Even India's 6-2 record is misleading because it rests on the last (3-0) series with absolutely unprepared bunsens, rated poor by the ICC, and where Dean Elgar became a genuine wicket taking threat. Before that SA were always competitive in India. And contrast those pitches with the India-friendly flat ones gifted by CSA this time in Centurion (And in Johannesburg and Durban in 2013/14) where India still can't win and the contrast becomes even more glaring.

Arbitrarily pick and choose to find a stretch of series's where it looks like India in SA are the equivalent of SA in India all you like, but it does not change the facts. India have never been and currently are not, as good or competitive in South Africa, as South Africa have been in India. Rant over!