***Official*** India in Pakistan

[Deja moo]

Wright at least took India to Finals, Chappell wont. I am 200 % sure about it. Wright's team lost to Australia @ home because Its main players were out for the major part of the series, Ganguly out of Nagpur and Mumbai, SRT out of 2 or 3 tests as well. Wright does share the blame for the loss though. There is no denying that he failed in WC finals and against Aus @ home.

He did fail against Aus, but as you say, that had a lot to with players entering and leaving the team, and also plain bad luck. If it hadnt rained in Chennai chances were India would have walked away with a 2-2 result.
The problem with the coaches is that one got blamed for just sitting back and letting things run their course (2004), while the other is getting blamed for being too pro-active.

 

[shaka]

what a turnaround that was! from 30/6 to winning the series.

 

[Sanz]

I'm not disputing the fielding, IMO its stayed the same, neither up nor down. In the ODI arena, yes it has improved with the induction of Raina, but that would have been the case even if Ponting were coaching India. However Pathan and Harbhajan have gone on record saying that they have benefitted from Frazer's inputs. And it is largely the medias fault for creating the impression that Chappel alone was reponsible for the showing against SL. In fact towards the end of that series, they did mention how Dravid seemed at pains to assert during press conferences, that he had a lot to do with it, and he wasnt a puppet captain following Chappells orders.

I agree with every word of what you say. But its blind followers like adhar who believe that every thing good happening to Indian Cricket has been because of Chappel when the fact clearly is that, with the ouster of Ganguly and inclusion of new comes like Raina, Rao, Dhoni, Singh etc, India has improved a lot and also a lot of credit goes to Dravid also for whatever success India has achieved.

About fitness a lot depends on players also on how they want to follow Coach's, trainers inputs. Irfan, Bhajji may have benefited but If you look @ Sehwag, it is quite clear that he hasn't. An excellent prospect like Balaji is not even considered for his state. Nehra is still not fit enough. Who will take the blame for all that ?

You may be impressed by Chappell's ways, I certainly am not. I dont like his way, for me Wright's way was much better.

 

[Nate]

It is with much regret that I have to agree with you regarding the spin department - I'm delighted that Panesar gets the trip though.

Same! And he just did alright against me in ICC which clearly furthers his case.

Very good point about the series wins in India being with a good pace attack. But I can`t help but feel England will really feel the loss of not having at least one quality spinner.

 

[marc71178]

Its a sheer trajedy, the team that looked better on the most part of the tour (in 2 out of 3 matches India did outperform Pak) ened up losing the match

Which 2 matches were those then?

 

[marc71178]

Yuvraj Singh topscored in the first dig, I think.

Yes, I misread the line between his and Ganguly's scores - I think it doesn't really change the gist of my point, just makes it wrong!

 

[marc71178]

Wright at least took India to Finals, Chappell wont. I am 200 % sure about it.

But how much of that will be Chappell's fault and how much because the Indian batting line-up is beginning to age and other teams have improved in the interim period?

 

[wpdavid]

what a turnaround that was! from 30/6 to winning the series.

Yup, it was a pretty special effort by Pakistan to win by 341 after being 39 for 6. Or an especially unimpressive effort by India, depending on your pov. After 2 pointless tests, the first day's play in this one must rank as one of the best in recent times.

Pakistan are looking a very interesting prospect, with lots of really talented young players coming through. I thought the keeper's innings was outstanding for the circumstances, and I can't imagine there was too much debate about him getting the MOM award. Looking ahead a few months, the assumption that England will comfortably reverse the result at the end of last year is seriously flawed, AFAICS.

 

[adharcric]

I agree with every word of what you say. But its blind followers like adhar who believe that every thing good happening to Indian Cricket has been because of Chappel when the fact clearly is that, with the ouster of Ganguly and inclusion of new comes like Raina, Rao, Dhoni, Singh etc, India has improved a lot and also a lot of credit goes to Dravid also for whatever success India has achieved.

About fitness a lot depends on players also on how they want to follow Coach's, trainers inputs. Irfan, Bhajji may have benefited but If you look @ Sehwag, it is quite clear that he hasn't. An excellent prospect like Balaji is not even considered for his state. Nehra is still not fit enough. Who will take the blame for all that ?

You may be impressed by Chappell's ways, I certainly am not. I dont like his way, for me Wright's way was much better.

Look buddy, you need to stop drawing your own meanings out of what I say. Perhaps I should read over what I write to make sure there's no way you'll construe it as extreme pro-Chappell sentiments.

I've never said that Chappell has been a saviour of any sort or that Dravid hasn't made contributions as captain. In my opinion, India had three big weaknesses in the one-day game: poor fielding/fitness, poor running between the wickets and lack of pace bowling. I think Chappell's done a decent job of addressing that. You may cite Sehwag looking out of shape, but we do have guys like Raina in the team (he wasn't anywhere close to being picked when Wright was coach) and we did see guys like Zaheer and Ganguly get reprimanded for fitness issues. We also have guys like Frazer helping the players out ... this is to Chappell's credit. That may not be a good enough result, but it's the right direction. We've seen genuine quicks like Sreesanth and VR Singh come into the spotlight (I think because of Chappell's influence) whereas earlier we were content with the 130kmph "swing" bowlers. I can't say for sure how much of this is due to Chappell or Dravid or someone else, but I'm pretty sure Chappell's taking the team in the right direction by providing opportunities to talented, young players. Regarding Pathan, I think Chappell's bold move of promoting him boosted his confidence greatly.

By now, you're probably convinced that I'm blind to Chappell's mistakes because I've only stated the good things he's done. Trust me, I know he has faults ... poor man-management at times, too much aggression, the list goes on. But I don't feel these things are enough for anyone to be saying that he doesn't deserve this job as the Indian coach. So far, we haven't done too poorly under Chappell and Dravid, so let's wait it out a little.
I personally think they form a professional, knowledgable combination that has the potential to take Team India to at least reasonable success.

Also, you mentioned that I was being hypocritical when I said those fans deserved a finger. First of all, I wasn't referring to Kolkatans in general (if you don't get it by now, never mind). Also, those are the kind of sensationalist fans I am talking about, the kind that go to such extremes and burn effigies of Dravid and Chappell and jeer the home team.

You don't have to become angry at me if you don't like something I say. This forum is all about healthy debate, and I see no reason to fight about cricket.

 

[wahindiawah]

It was interesting to see Pakistan making landmines for England's team side matches and later making them play on dead pitches, the poor Englishmen were never able to fully adjust to the condition and end up losing the match.

With India Pakistan did the reverse, made India play on road for the first two test matches and then came up with a green top.Indians were not mentally prepared for this shocker and end up losing the match.

I think the Pakistani groundsmen deserve to be the actuall winner, the way they messed about with the visiting teams was something they should be proud of.

 

[Nate]

Scathing!

 

[adharcric]

It was interesting to see Pakistan making landmines for England's team side matches and later making them play on dead pitches, the poor Englishmen were never able to fully adjust to the condition and end up losing the match.

With India Pakistan did the reverse, made India play on road for the first two test matches and then came up with a green top.Indians were not mentally prepared for this shocker and end up losing the match.

I think the Pakistani groundsmen deserve to be the actuall winner, the way they messed about with the visiting teams was something they should be proud of.

Give me a break ... I agree with this idea of Pakistan's pitch-preparing strategy to an extent, but you can't possibly believe that the Pakistanis didn't outplay us and earn that win in the third test.

 

[luckyeddie]

It was interesting to see Pakistan making landmines for England's team side matches and later making them play on dead pitches, the poor Englishmen were never able to fully adjust to the condition and end up losing the match.

With India Pakistan did the reverse, made India play on road for the first two test matches and then came up with a green top.Indians were not mentally prepared for this shocker and end up losing the match.

I think the Pakistani groundsmen deserve to be the actuall winner, the way they messed about with the visiting teams was something they should be proud of.

Post of the Week.

 

[Beleg]

adharic posted,

Akhtar needs to be more penetrative and spend less time bowling crazy bouncers and more time bowling ripping deliveries like the one that undid Sehwag.

Check out the 'on the ball - a tale of two attacks' feature at cricinfo to get an idea of Akhtar's effectivity. Just because some excellent balls didn't translate into wickets doesn't mean he wasn't effective/penetrative.

 

[adharcric]

adharic posted,



Check out the 'on the ball - a tale of two attacks' feature at cricinfo to get an idea of Akhtar's effectivity. Just because some excellent balls didn't translate into wickets doesn't mean he wasn't effective/penetrative.

oh i'm not saying he wasn't penetrative, just saying how he can be even more penetrative. he can take many more wickets if he cuts out those bouncers which aren't too hard for batsmen to duck under. they do intimidate the batsmen, but he needs to use the right amount of them.

 

[Gotchya]

It was interesting to see Pakistan making landmines for England's team side matches and later making them play on dead pitches, the poor Englishmen were never able to fully adjust to the condition and end up losing the match.

With India Pakistan did the reverse, made India play on road for the first two test matches and then came up with a green top.Indians were not mentally prepared for this shocker and end up losing the match.

I think the Pakistani groundsmen deserve to be the actuall winner, the way they messed about with the visiting teams was something they should be proud of.

:

They asked for it

 

[pug]

It was interesting to see Pakistan making landmines for England's team side matches and later making them play on dead pitches, the poor Englishmen were never able to fully adjust to the condition and end up losing the match.

With India Pakistan did the reverse, made India play on road for the first two test matches and then came up with a green top.Indians were not mentally prepared for this shocker and end up losing the match.

I think the Pakistani groundsmen deserve to be the actuall winner, the way they messed about with the visiting teams was something they should be proud of.

Hypocrite! I'm sure after the 2nd test you were giving all the blame to Inzy and Woolmer for being scared of the mighty Indian batting!

 

[Sanz]

But how much of that will be Chappell's fault and how much because the Indian batting line-up is beginning to age and other teams have improved in the interim period?

Incase you have forgotten with the same lineup (infact better lineup) Asnshuman Gaekwad couldn't even take India to Semifinals of 1999 world cup. In 1999, Sachin, Rahul and Ganguly were at peak with Azhar, Jadeja, Robin in the middle order, Kumble, Srinath, Prasad part of our bowling attack, still we couldn't manage to go beyond super Six.Chappell is paid astronomical amout of money, he cant use the excuse that SRT and Ganguly have started to crumble hence it is not his fault that India were not able to make it. Pakistan is also going to be without Akram, Younis, Saqlain ans Seed. Australia will be without Mcgrath, Warne, Martyn etc.

 

[maxpower]

After the way IND bowlers bowled in the 3rd test, how will they stop PAK in one dayers ? Its gonna be a long 5 one dayers for IND bowlers. And is Dravid the new permanent opener in test, what kinda crap is that...

 

[Sanz]

In my opinion, India had three big weaknesses in the one-day game: poor fielding/fitness, poor running between the wickets and lack of pace bowling. I think Chappell's done a decent job of addressing that.

No, Chappell has not done anything better or worse than Wright. India's pace bowling is AWEFUL. Fielding isn't any different..from Wright's time either.

You may cite Sehwag looking out of shape, but we do have guys like Raina in the team (he wasn't anywhere close to being picked when Wright was coach) and we did see guys like Zaheer and Ganguly get reprimanded for fitness issues.

Raina..Raina Raina..what are you harping about..He didn't even play in a single game against South Africa. Besides how can you give credit to Chappell for his fielding, like Kaif and Yuvraj he was a better fielder before he even came into the Indian team. He hasn't done much as a batsman. If he was so good then why did he not play asingle game against South Africa. Let me guess..Rotation Policy CRAP.

We also have guys like Frazer helping the players out ... this is to Chappell's credit. That may not be a good enough result, but it's the right direction. We've seen genuine quicks like Sreesanth and VR Singh come into the spotlight (I think because of Chappell's influence) whereas earlier we were content with the 130kmph "swing" bowlers.

VR Singh, hasn't even played a single game, so stop claiming as if he is the next Shane Bond. RP Singh and Santh bowl in 130s only, so does Pathan. Please talk to me when they top Nehra's and Zaheer's pace in the world cup. As for VRV Singh coming into spotlight because of Chappell, yeah even Sachin Tendulkar came into spotlight because of him. . SreeSanth is ordinary and nowhere as good as Balaji.

I can't say for sure how much of this is due to Chappell or Dravid or someone else, but I'm pretty sure Chappell's taking the team in the right direction by providing opportunities to talented, young players. Regarding Pathan, I think Chappell's bold move of promoting him boosted his confidence greatly.

Yeah Pathan's confidence has boosted because of Chappell, How about Murali Karthik performance, How about Kumble away performance in Pak, Pathan's bowling, Laxman's batting, Sehwag's batting, SRT's batting...let me guees that is the players fault. Chappell cant be blamed for that.

By now, you're probably convinced that I'm blind to Chappell's mistakes because I've only stated the good things he's done. Trust me, I know he has faults ... poor man-management at times, too much aggression, the list goes on. But I don't feel these things are enough for anyone to be saying that he doesn't deserve this job as the Indian coach. So far, we haven't done too poorly under Chappell and Dravid, so let's wait it out a little.

Yes you are blind to chappel's mistake and you will see the result in next two years. I can see it, It has already started, first against SA in ODIs and now against Pak.

I personally think they form a professional, knowledgable combination that has the potential to take Team India to at least reasonable success.

What is a reasonable success ? IMO Losing series in Pakistan isn't reasonable, Draw i nODI serie against SA is. Rahul does fit the description though. Unfortunately Chappell doesn't. He is hardly professional.

Also, you mentioned that I was being hypocritical when I said those fans deserved a finger. First of all, I wasn't referring to Kolkatans in general (if you don't get it by now, never mind). Also, those are the kind of sensationalist fans I am talking about, the kind that go to such extremes and burn effigies of Dravid and Chappell and jeer the home team.

If they are sensationalist fans then you are no better for applauding Chappell's finger show or infact wanting to be a part of it.