*Official* India in Pakistan Thread

[V Reddy]

and vishnureddy

that post about the indian bowling attack having more agression was not posted by me.....it was posted by some guy like agaraajajajaja .....who make the most ludicrous comments on the forumwas not posted by me.....

Yeah i know that. I first typed a long message addressing all his claims on Indian players in some other thread but my connection went haywire and got timed out message and the message i typed got erased. Wasn't in a mood to retype it again and so replied in a short message thru ur message

 

[marc71178]

and razzaq is a great all rounder but some people dont want to admit it because the all rounders that they have in their team are mediocore(agarkar and bangar jump to mind )

I wouldn't put Razzaq as much better than Mediocre.

I can easily name 4 or 5 better in ODI's.

and razzaq has put up more of a performance on the ineternetaional scene than perhaps even yuvraj or kaif

Different types of player, so irrelevant.

 

[thehellraiser]

originally posted by marc 71178:

Different types of player, so irrelevant




the point i was trying to make is that razzaq would be preferred if it comes to a choice between him and those players

 

[marc71178]

No he wouldn't - because 2 of them would only be considered for a batting role, and they're better batsmen than Razzaq.

 

[thehellraiser]

no they are no.....

just count the no. of batting performances that razzaq,yuvraj and kaif have put in over the years

razzaq has played more significant innings with the bat in crucial times

the only innings that kaif played was the one in the natwest final against england.....that is all....

yuvraj has played one test match.....no 50 or hundred and kaif has played 4 ests with no 50 nor hundered

while razzaq playing as a allrounder has got 3 hundreds and 4 fifties

razzaqs avg is 29.50 over the course of 27 matches

and the other 2 barely avg 20 .........(they shoyuld avg more considering that they have not played may matches)

razzaq's odi stats:

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

overall 154 2958 112 29.58 1 16 179 6/35 27.68 3 22 0



yuvraj's odi stats:

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

overall 89 2071 139 30.91 2 13 24 4/6 37.20 0 30 0


kaif' odi stats:

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St

overall 59 1170 111* 30.78 1 6 - - - - 28 0



add to this razzaq' bowling capabilities

he would easily walk into any side ahead of kaif and yuvraj

 

[Armadillo]

Well put across thehellraiser, it just proves the uselessness of Kaif.

 

[Neil Pickup]

(they shoyuld avg more considering that they have not played may matches)

Totally and utterly invalid!

 

[thehellraiser]

razzaqs played more games and yet avgs more....
there is an arguement put accross that players who have not played many games tend to avg more

based on the reversal of that principle..........razzaq avgs more than kaif and yuvraj

totally and utterly VALID.

 

[Neil Pickup]

There are many more players that average disproportionately lowly in their first games than those who average disproportionately highly.

Either way, it's not something that can ever be used with any confidence to rate someone's ability.

 

[thehellraiser]

oh yeah

then why is so much reference made to bevans avg in odi cricket

 

[Neil Pickup]

Because it shows he stays in, and has maintained it long-term?

And how does that refer to short term averages judging anyone?

 

[thehellraiser]

avgs are what a batman and bowler are judged by

i myself think that they can sometimes hide the true picture

but thats the way it is

and like u say that many have avg more later onin their careers.....on the other hand there are many who have avgd more at the start of their careers

simply put
razzaqs avg is more than the other 2
despite being a all rounder

i also made a reference to the odi's where all of them have played a significant amount of games

any way u look at it
razzaq is a better choice than them 2

an dby the way neil

who do u think the 4 starting bowlers for pakistan should be
in the odi's

 

[Neil Pickup]

You can't make any judgment on just averages of such a short time period.

Steve Waugh averaged 12.55 after 5 games, 16.66 after 9 and 30.52 after 26, so the fact the other two have played five Tests between them has little relevance to their general batting talents.

Yes, I'd pick Razzaq rather than either

And Shoaib, Sami, Shabbir & Saqlain.

 

[yohanna]

When did they say that , Can you please quote them ??

Actually some experts did say that Razzak was one of the best allrounder in the world, but that commet was way back in late 90's.

Razzak now is hardly a decent bowler, he bats very well but the decline in his bowling is clearly visible. Razzak simply cannot be compared to any genuine allrounders. And considering Pak is a bowling team, i wouldn't be surprised to see a better bowling allrounder in Rana Naveed replacing Razzak in test team in future.

 

[Sanz]

That's true, but we are talking about Razzaq of today. I dont think he is as good as he was in 1998-2000. he plays in this pakistani team because of TINA.

 

[yohanna]

That's true, but we are talking about Razzaq of today. I dont think he is as good as he was in 1998-2000. he plays in this pakistani team because of TINA.

I don't know aht you mean by Tina, but as i said earlier Razzak is hardly a decent bowler now days.

However Razzak is still a match winning player in Onedays, as he's an explosive batsman.As long as he continue to bat effectively he shoulkd be in Pak oneday team.

 

[Sanz]

TINA = There Is No Alternative. That is the only reason he is still playin this pakistan team. The moment Pakistan get a decent batsman who can bowl 5-6 overs, he will be out of the team.

I predict that he will lose his place in this team another 1-2 years .

 

[yohanna]

TINA = There Is No Alternative. That is the only reason he is still playin this pakistan team. The moment Pakistan get a decent batsman who can bowl 5-6 overs, he will be out of the team.

I predict that he will lose his place in this team another 1-2 years .

Totally disagree if you are saying that Razzak is in onedayers because Pak doesn't have alternative. Alternative for what? for someone who has been winning matches with his batting? why the hell would you think of even replacing him?? The way Razzak destroyed NZ and SA recently in Onedayers, only a mad man would think of replacing Razzak.


AS far as test are concerned, Pak have a better batsman in Younis Khan and even Aasim Kamal, but they persist with Razzak as Pakistan still feel better by going in the match with 5 bowlers.But i feel that if they intent to do that in future then they should go with a better allrounder in Rana Naveed .

 

[imranrabb]

Totally disagree if you are saying that Razzak is in onedayers because Pak doesn't have alternative. Alternative for what? for someone who has been winning matches with his batting? why the hell would you think of even replacing him?? The way Razzak destroyed NZ and SA recently in Onedayers, only a mad man would think of replacing Razzak.


AS far as test are concerned, Pak have a better batsman in Younis Khan and even Aasim Kamal, but they persist with Razzak as Pakistan still feel better by going in the match with 5 bowlers.But i feel that if they intent to do that in future then they should go with a better allrounder in Rana Naveed .

What about azhar mahmood

 

[marc71178]

IMO Razzaq is neither good enough with the bat nor the ball to be classed as a great all-rounder - he's a "bits and pieces" player for me, and I certainly wouldn't pick him ahead of Kaif or Yuvraj since the role that those 2 are picked in has no thought of bowling.