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***Official India in New Zealand***

Polo23

International Debutant
I don't think anyone described him as "crap" (we'll I certainly didn't). What people are questioning is why our top ODI batsman of the last 3 years or so can't get in ahead of a newcomer who done bugger-all, thats all
And I would have thought the answer is pretty obvious and reasonable. Styris got injured at an unfortunate time, has only just returned and hasn't shown great form as of yet.

As far as I am concerned Broom hasn't done a lot wrong, he definitely shouldn't be dropped for a guy who has hardly played in the last few months just because he has a decent record behind him. Sure, it's tough on Styris..but that's life.
 

Zinzan

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And I would have thought the answer is pretty obvious and reasonable. Styris got injured at an unfortunate time, has only just returned and hasn't shown great form as of yet.

.
I disagree that it's obvious it should work that way, regardless of Styris' form. He's a proven world class batsman at ODI level, and in this instance the new-comer Broom should have needed to do something pretty special to keep him out, as opposed to having a top score of 25 (or what ever it was) in the 8-10 ODI & T20 games he's had. Limited opportunities or not, Broom really hasn't looked as great as your making out.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
Broom is a quality player, good technique and he strikes the ball nicely. I havn't made him out to be anything other than that.

And i'd hardly call Styris a World Class ODI batsman, who are you trying to fool? An average of 32.58 is nothing more than 'good' at international level...and even then, it's probably a stretch.

You guys seem to be making Styris out as one of the worlds premier ODI batsmen, and if he was, i'd be the first saying he should be in the team. Styris is a good player, but not someone who commands selection unquestioned regardless of form.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
And I would have thought the answer is pretty obvious and reasonable. Styris got injured at an unfortunate time, has only just returned and hasn't shown great form as of yet.

As far as I am concerned Broom hasn't done a lot wrong, he definitely shouldn't be dropped for a guy who has hardly played in the last few months just because he has a decent record behind him. Sure, it's tough on Styris..but that's life.
I know I'm gonna hate myself for getting back into this argument, but doesn't the same logic apply to Broom? Let me try using your exact phrasing.

Broom's only just entered international cricket and hasn't shown great form as of yet.

As far as I'm concerned in domestic 20/20's Styris hasn't done a lot wrong. He's made a couple of scores in the 30's and 20's. He definately shouldn't be kept out by a guy who's hardly established himself in the team, just because he's young and might have some potential. Sure Broom hasn't done anything (major) wrong, and he hasn't had a lot of opportunities... but that's life.

So why is it that Styris is the one who misses out here? Why does he have to suck it up, and Broom get the benefit of the doubt?
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
The selectors have clearly made the call with the World Cup in mind....has Styris indicated he wants to be around then? he has muttered it yes, but maybe they aren't convinced by his desire at the moment.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
And i'd hardly call Styris a World Class ODI batsman, who are you trying to fool? An average of 32.58 is nothing more than 'good' at international level...and even then, it's probably a stretch.
Again, you're forgetting Styris began his career as a bowler. Since he switched to being a specialist batsman in 2002 he's averaged closer to 36/37, which is on par with the likes of Astle.
 
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Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
The selectors have clearly made the call with the World Cup in mind....has Styris indicated he wants to be around then? he has muttered it yes, but maybe they aren't convinced by his desire at the moment.
I don't buy that either. If Styris really didn't have any desire to play ODI's anymore, why would he be playing at all? He's got a fat IPL contract for the next few years, why wouldn't he just do a Fleming and pull out of NZ cricket?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Styris is better than Broom, but criticising Elliott in ODIs is insane, I know I'm the guys biggest fan, but the guy is one hell of an ODI allrounder.

For the love of God, keep him away from tests though.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
I know I'm gonna hate myself for getting back into this argument, but doesn't the same logic apply to Broom? Let me try using your exact phrasing.

Broom's only just entered international cricket and hasn't shown great form as of yet.

As far as I'm concerned in domestic 20/20's Styris hasn't done a lot wrong. He's made a couple of scores in the 30's and 20's. He definately shouldn't be kept out by a guy who's hardly established himself in the team, just because he's young and might have some potential. Sure Broom hasn't done anything (major) wrong, and he hasn't had a lot of opportunities... but that's life.

So why is it that Styris is the one who misses out here? Why does he have to suck it up, and Broom get the benefit of the doubt?
The obvious difference being Broom is part of a winning NZ team and Styris is part of a losing DOMESTIC team. Styris is being kept out by his poor form and lack of cricket. Sure, the lack of cricket isn't Styris' fault, but as I said earlier, that's life.
 

Flem274*

123/5
what are Piggys stats for this season? If they're decent he should be in the squad or near it, at least, if they're not then I can understand them not picking him.

He should be playing OD games for NZ A though.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Styris is a good player, but not someone who commands selection unquestioned regardless of form.
Exactly what it comes down too in the end.

Since the start of last year, Styris has averaged 35 against England. That's it, aside from a few innings against Bangladesh and one against Scotland. He hasn't played an ODI since October 2008 and has barely done anything for Auckland in any form of domestic cricket. Couple that with his injury troubles and his age, and it's pretty obvious why the selectors have opted for Broom (rightly so IMO).
 

Polo23

International Debutant
Some sense at last!

Also, whats with everyone saying Styris has averaged 50 in the last two years? Yeah, in 2007 when he had that fantastic WC he averaged around 55 but in 2008 he averaged 27.50. If anything he deserved to be dropped anyway.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
The obvious difference being Broom is part of a winning NZ team and Styris is part of a losing DOMESTIC team. Styris is being kept out by his poor form and lack of cricket. Sure, the lack of cricket isn't Styris' fault, but as I said earlier, that's life.
:huh:

Auckland won 5 games and lost 2. That's hardly a losing side. And again, his performances for Auckland haven't been that much worse than Broom's for NZ...

OK, I can see this is only going to go round in circles so I'm out. G'night.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
:huh:

Auckland won 5 games and lost 2. That's hardly a losing side. And again, his performances for Auckland haven't been that much worse than Broom's for NZ...

OK, I can see this is only going to go round in circles so I'm out. G'night.
Broom's barely had any chance for NZ, pretty much whenever he has come to the crease it has been in the slog overs. Styris on the other hand, is a seasoned veteran, who has been in pretty poor form for his domestic side. You can't compare them. Styris, at his age and with his experience, should be carving up for Auckland and piling on the runs to get back into the national team. Broom on the other hand has just come into the Black Caps side and performed as well as can be expected, given the opportunities he's had.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
:huh:

Auckland won 5 games and lost 2. That's hardly a losing side. And again, his performances for Auckland haven't been that much worse than Broom's for NZ...

OK, I can see this is only going to go round in circles so I'm out. G'night.
Auckland didn't make the final = a losing team.

His performances for Auckland have been exactly that, performances for Auckland. Broom has been playing the best bowlers in the world. For Broom to be dropped in favour of a guy who averaged 27 in 2008, could hardly buy a run in domestic cricket and has only had 5 minutes back in competitive cricket would have been insane.

Yeah, until you can see sense this is going to go around in circles.
 

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
Also, whats with everyone saying Styris has averaged 50 in the last two years? Yeah, in 2007 when he had that fantastic WC he averaged around 55 but in 2008 he averaged 27.50. If anything he deserved to be dropped anyway.
Indeed.
I was wondering what all the two consecutive 50+ average seasons thing was coming from. He was our best batsman in 2007, but did nothing of note in 2008 and looked all out of sorts if I remember correctly. His 87no was pretty dodgy, wasn't it?
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The Indians will be back to ODI action in two days, with a few things to think about.

For instance, it may be wise to have their best batsmen higher up the order. Dhoni bats way too low at six and seven, and should come in at four. He's got the best batting average and a great strike rate going with it, and batting so low makes no sense. He deserves a promotion, especially at three. Yuvraj at four is another lock, especially on present form. Raina has the least impressive statistics, so he can come in at six or five.

It's debatable, who should open, Gambhir or Tendulkar. Tendulkar may be an automatic choice, but his recent struggles opening, as well as the success of the Sehwag-Gambhir partnership (also their Test opening partnership) may suggest otherwise. Moreover, we don't know what will happen if Sachin and Sehwag get off to a great start and put up a massive score- then Gambhir will be redundant.

Two spinners in the playing XI should be explored. Spin has proved effective for both teams, with Vettori and Harbhajan taking wickets cheaply in the T20. The Indians should play Ojha in all the matches, unless they're concerned about their batting, in which case Yusuf Pathan should play as a full spinner. That option is still not explored, and when Dhoni had the chance, he didn't take it. You can't risk Sehwag and Yuvraj bowling regularly, when you need runs from them. They will get fatigued, or worse, if hit for a series of boundaries, disturbed, which will affect their batting. An over or two will suffice, but no more.

Ishant Sharma has picked up an injury while fielding, and had to undergo surgery. It's a tough spot for the Indians, but they should risk playing him, because even if he isn't completely fit, he's better than the bowler on the bench who is fully fit. You've got Irfan, who's got a hitch adjusting to New Zealand, and you have Munaf, a complete liability on the team when not bowling, and himself a perpetual injury worry. Then again, will they risk aggravating his shoulder problem? They can't afford to lose him totally, either. They might just drop Irfan again, and will miss him yet again.
 

Prad100w

U19 Cricketer
The problem is that India = Bangladesh when it comes to away games. I expect NZ to win the ODIs 4-1.

Do you follow cricket??? In the last 5 or so years.. We have won in Australia, England, Srilanka, Pakistan and WI..I hope those are "away" wins...!!!
 

Prad100w

U19 Cricketer
My Ideal XI for the first ODI would be,

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Gambhir
Yuvraj
dhoni
Raina
Yousuf
Harbhajan
Praveen
Z Khan
M Patel


Maybe scrap yousuf and put ojha in since Nz are traditionally weak against spinners.
I Sharma should be rested as his fitness would be vital for India in Tests..
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
My Ideal XI for the first ODI would be,

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Gambhir
Yuvraj
dhoni
Raina
Yousuf
Harbhajan
Praveen
Z Khan
M Patel


Maybe scrap yousuf and put ojha in since Nz are traditionally weak against spinners.
I Sharma should be rested as his fitness would be vital for India in Tests..
Looks good, buddy.
 

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