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***Official*** India in Australia

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Getting bowled out for even 300 on this track in the first innings would have been a big setback. There's no way you can be sure that Australia would have atleast drawn. A loss would have been a very probable.
'Possible', I very much doubt 'probable' and even less 'very probable'.

IMO, Australia could have gone to make the same score anyway using their batsmen to their fullest extent but it would have left even less time for the Indian batsmen to score that amount of runs.
 

McKanga

School Boy/Girl Captain
Its amazing how there can be so much good cricket in a match from both sides and still at the end of it you feel sad. Its not because India lost but because how the match was ruined by atrocious umpiring. Maybe india would have still lost, maybe not, but it would have been so much more enjoyable.

Very mixed feelings throughout the game I am afraid......
I feel a little sad too, though I was quite elated at the end of the match. It was a fierce and professional contest but won't be remembered as it should have been.
I guess the issue now is how India respond. After England lost the 2nd Test in Adelaide last year they crumbled for the remainder of the series. Can India sustain or exceed their present effort? On past history it is reasonable to believe Australia will continue at a high standard.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Then criticise him for his mistakes just like you would any sportsman. It is human error that resulted in those mistakes - not a desire for the umpires to make the mistakes to annoy the touring side.
One is accusing someone of cheating, while the other is accusing them of simply being terrible in at game (big difference). Errors were made that Kumble believes cost him the match. Incompetent umpiring does not deserve respect.
 

shankar

International Debutant
FWIW, I agree, it is poor form, and it almost certainly alleges/implies that the umpire deliberately made incorrect decisions in order to favor the other team. Although I can understand that he's furious, it's a poor standard for the captain of an international cricket side.
Yeah, agreed.
 

Agent TBY

International Captain
The above is like saying: even with 250 ahead we would have won because you guys only scored 210 anyway. Those changes would have changed the game-plan around.
Thanks to Dravid's dismissal. I'm not saying the rest of the team batted well, but I firmly believe he would've stuck around enough for another 40 runs to go onboard.
 

Dexter

Cricket Spectator
I am glad that Kumble didn't shake hands with benson . True champion .
some of the comments here amaze me... the umpires are out there doing the best they can.. some incorrect descisions were made, and thats been happening as long as ive been watching cricket.. both for and against. thats just cricket, if you cant move on and play the game then you dont have the right attitude to be a 'champion'. IMO thats one of the lamest excuses in sport, to blame the umpires/reffs for your loss, or the bad luck, or anything else to do with the game thats out of your control. you put it out of your head, you move on, and you get on with it.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Getting bowled out for even 300 on this track in the first innings would have been a big setback. There's no way you can be sure that Australia would have atleast drawn. A loss would have been a very probable.
Butterfly effect. If Aus only got 200, then maybe India starts batting on a pitch with more juice in it, and only ended up with 290. Or maybe they could have made 700 again.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Sorry for those who think Australians shouldn't be proud of winning this test. I certainly am. We still won it in very tough conditions that if reversed I doubt India would have won. In fact, I don't think any other team could have such a small window of opportunity and still win it.

Of course, it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth that the win wasn't controversy free, but it has nothing to do with the Australian side and so I can't pretend to be sorry for India as if we were responsible. We weren't.

Also, Australia would have at the least drawn this match. What did India lose? A draw. They would not have won this test, IMO. Still great play, but I had predicted before the series that Australia would take this 4-0. I think that'll still happen.
true that even if these erroneous decisions had not been handed out, it could very likely have been a draw, but a draw would still have been much more the fairer result than what ultimately transpired....usually australia dominate and win by so much that umpiring mistakes really wouldn't change the final result but that's clearly not what happened here, india were on a level footing through most of this test in spite of the umpiring errors and their performance easily deserved at least a draw here...
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I think it was. Why would you shake the hand of someone after something like that?
Shake his hand like a man and stare into his eyes as if he were a child. Not shaking his hand, not championesque at all in my books. And not for the mannerism of shaking hands...just for confronting your obstacle instead of ignoring it.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Can't really agree with more. Great cricket all around, but I can't help but be frustrated at the large part that people other than the players played in the outcome. If you're not for more technology to improve cricket after this, you're on a completely different plane of thought from me.

Coming back to the cricket: Michael Clarke has the voodoo over India. I don't really understand how or why. Fantastic job by him IMO. Symonds just became a permanent member of the Aussie Test side - that sucks for them though.
I totally agree. I am amazed at the illogical arguments offered against using more technology AS AN AID . I highlight those words very intentionally. It is an aid. It does not do any damage to the umpires or to their credibility. It helps them. But so many idiots have been arguing for not having technology since it is not perfect - whatever that may mean.

Why are we looking for perfection? We are NEVER going to get 100 percent correct decisions irrespective of where technology goes. All we can do is improve the percentage of correct decisions. Surely that will happen. If we could have got 8 out of about ten bad decisions correct in this match would it not have been better for the game ? You dont need to be a rocket scientist to answer that. Of course you can be a mule and be as illogical as you have decided to be.

These stupid ICC bosses have decided to use technology in an area like whether the bowler is chucking and redefined chucking to allow justifying use of technology. No one is concerned that the technology in this case is SO incapable of providing an aid to the adjudicators of the game, right there and then on the ground, when there is a doubt that the law may (or may not) be contravened. Yet we use technology in this dubious manner in the case of chucking. Why? What made ICC use technology in this case. Many people have very strong opinions why so much change was made to the games laws and definitions just to take away the power of the umpires to call a bowler for chucking. For thats what this did.

Okay fair enough.

But then why are you so reluctant to allow the umpires to use some technology themselves as an aid. We are not talking of a computer over ruling the field umpires but a third umpire being an active part of the three man team which officiates in a test. Once they decide to do that they wil find a way to do it without causing as much damage as we hacve seen in this game.

Haven't better decisions on run outs become such an integral part of the game. In fact we take them for granted. Does any one have a clue as to how many we were getting wrong before these were refered 'upstairs' ? Ha s this made the umpires status worse. I dont think so but I dont care if it has. The question to ask is, Has this made umpiring and decision making in the case of run outs better ? and the answer would be an unequivocal YES. Why cant the same thinking go into other areas where we can use some more technology as an aid. THe umpiring team can still be the final arbitrator and decide whether the batsman is out, whether he is not out or whether the evidence presented is inconclusive in which case batsman gets the benefit of doubt as provided for in the laws of the game.

Whats wrong with that.

Mr Sunil Gavaskar who is screaming his head off today because India seem to be at the receiving end has been one of the strongest opponents of technology in the past and its people like him who are in the strongest position to advise ICC on such matters.

I dont even say we more need technology. I am shocked that some people have any argument why it shouldn't be used as an aid to the umpiring team.
 
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FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
FWIW, I agree, it is poor form, and it almost certainly alleges/implies that the umpire deliberately made incorrect decisions in order to favor the other team. Although I can understand that he's furious, it's a poor standard for the captain of an international cricket side.

Haven't got an issue with him criticising the standard of the umpiring in the press after a game like this, though.
I think it's understandable that he wouldn't shake hands, given that he'd obviously be upset about the defeat and angry about the standard of umpiring, but it's absurd to act as though it's some sort of wonderfully brave gesture on his part. It's certainly not something he should have avoided doing, regardless of the circumstances, unless he believes the umpires actually were biased.
 

shankar

International Debutant
'Possible', I very much doubt 'probable' and even less 'very probable'.

IMO, Australia could have gone to make the same score anyway using their batsmen to their fullest extent but it would have left even less time for the Indian batsmen to score that amount of runs.
You can speculate on all that. But you said Australia would have atleast gotten a draw which you can't say for sure. Batting with 69 runs lead is totally different from batting under a bigger deficit.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Thanks to Dravid's dismissal. I'm not saying the rest of the team batted well, but I firmly believe he would've stuck around enough for another 40 runs to go onboard.
Still missing the point. Australia would not have given India the opportunity to win so they would have shifted their game plan around. You're assuming a change won't affect other areas of the game. Ponting, as illustrated by his post-match speech, was not ever going to put India in a position to win the match. Hussey was more than settled, and if Symonds had gone early you would have not seen Gilchrist and Hogg play rashly. In fact, the only reason they did that was because Symonds ended up making runs they may have had to. Australia had more batsmen left and could have made a score similar, if not more, than what already was and would have given India less time to bat.
 
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duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
some of the comments here amaze me... the umpires are out there doing the best they can.. some incorrect descisions were made, and thats been happening as long as ive been watching cricket.. both for and against. thats just cricket, if you cant move on and play the game then you dont have the right attitude to be a 'champion'. IMO thats one of the lamest excuses in sport, to blame the umpires/reffs for your loss, or the bad luck, or anything else to do with the game thats out of your control. you put it out of your head, you move on, and you get on with it.
Not relevant at all. Their efforts were woefully sub-standard. If a player puts in a performance like they did they'll be widely criticised and dropped. Nothing is going to happen to these guys. Bucknor is standing in the very next match and expect to see Benson umpiring somewhere soon.

They need to be held accountable for what's gone on, otherwise nothing changes and we'll see more fraud results like this one. All you're doing is defending incompetency.
 

funnygirl

State Regular
some of the comments here amaze me... the umpires are out there doing the best they can.. some incorrect descisions were made, and thats been happening as long as ive been watching cricket.. both for and against. thats just cricket, if you cant move on and play the game then you dont have the right attitude to be a 'champion'. IMO thats one of the lamest excuses in sport, to blame the umpires/reffs for your loss, or the bad luck, or anything else to do with the game thats out of your control. you put it out of your head, you move on, and you get on with it.
Ofcourse they are humans,they can do something about their weaknesses .if he had a doubt refer to the third umpire ,not to a fielding captian .Such mistakes deserve such attitude . He is a true champion.
 

Agent TBY

International Captain
Still missing the point. Australia would not have given India the opportunity to win so they would have shifted their game plan around. You're assuming a change won't affect other areas of the game. Ponting, as illustrated by his post-match speech, was not ever going to put India in a position to win the match. Hussey was more than settled, and if Symonds had gone early you would have not seen Gilchrist and Hogg play rashly. In fact, the only reason they did that was because Symonds ended up making runs they may have had to. Australia had most batsmen left and could have made a score similar, if not more, than what already was and would have given India less time to bat.
Why're you totally ignoring the time Australia spent in the middle in the first innings? If they were bowled out for a lesser score, they obviously spent lesser time in the middle.

Either way, this argument isn't going to change a thing, so I concede, or something.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
You can speculate on all that. But you said Australia would have atleast gotten a draw which you can't say for sure. Batting with 69 runs lead is totally different from batting under a bigger deficit.
You can't say anything for sure. But one thing I can say is: Australia would have never given India the chance to win if it did not give them an even bigger chance to win as well. And a score as low as that was not on the cards for Ponting. It was either draw or win, not to give India a shot. Had Symonds been given out it would have changed the game around but not so much IMO. I reckon you were actually fortunate in some way. Symonds scored at a high SR which saved you time. Otherwise, Australia could have batted to a same/similar total giving you even less time.
 

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