***Official*** India in Australia

[Unattainableguy]

Oh really, yeah I haven't filled out their supp form yet, actually I haven't even applied to the Unis yet, will do tonight. Yeah YorkU gives a lot in scholarships. Btw, you have msn bro?

yea, same ID at hotmail.com

 

[silentstriker]

Back in 2003 (I think- could have been late 2002) Lehmann was in the ODI team playing Sri Lanka in the Australian Tri-Series when he was run out. When he entered the Australian dressing room, he apparently yelled out "black (insert colourful profanity literally translated as ******s)". In his autobiography, his explanation was that he was inside the rooms, and didn't think that he would be heard outside of the rooms. He also accepted that his words were atrocious (and didn't challenge the punishment), apologised to all and sundry, and pleaded that it was essentially a momentary brain fart that didn't reflect the content of his character.

Needless to say, he WAS heard outside the rooms, most notably in the Sri Lankan rooms.

At the time of the offence, he went into the Sri Lankan rooms to apologise, and the ICC official (I'm pretty sure it was Clive Lloyd) decided that as the apology was accepted by the Sri Lankans, the matter would be laid to rest without any further sanction.

The story then hit the media, and Malcolm Speed stepped in and instructed Lloyd to convene a hearing, at which Lehmann was found guilty and banned from 6 ODIs.

The extended fallout of this was the incident shortly afterwards between Latif and Gilchrist at the World Cup, when Gilchrist claimed that Latif called him the same thing, with "white" substituting for "black". On that occasion, Latif denied the charge, and it was dismissed as there was no supporting evidence.

Apparently (and again, this is from Lehmann's book) Lehmann asked Gilchrist if he was sure that he wanted to pursue the matter, and Gilchrist's response was along the lines of "you can't say that, so he shouldn't be allowed to either."

As far as my memory goes, that's pretty much the story.

Lehmann though still (from his book) seems to blame the media more than himself, saying how stuff should stay inside the dressing room.

 

[micks80]

Who will win the 2nd Test ?

Hi Guys,
India have gained a 69-runs lead in the 1st innings of the 2nd test match and the match has reached a crucial stage with 2 days to go, so what do you think, who will win this match?

A. India
B. Australia
C. Draw

I think it would be a DRAW
Cheers

 

[Unattainableguy]

Hi Guys,
India have gained a 69-runs lead in the 1st innings of the 2nd test match and the match has reached a crucial stage with 2 days to go, so what do you think, who will win this match?

A. India
B. Australia
C. Draw

I think it would be a DRAW
Cheers

60% draw (thanks to the flat pitch).
40% Aus win

 

[Cevno]

First let me make it clear that you argument that you are rational clearly stands no truth as seen by your personal jibes.To be honest it would be better if you made jibes in simple english as it is my third language and I am not knowledable of aussie banter.I may construe it as racism.
Since you started it,By the way when are you being discharged from your special hospital.(I'm calling it only special instead of other words not to hurt your sensitive *** which you claim to be your mind)

Nope. Symonds made no prejudicial comment on the matter until after the BCCI denied that it had occurred, which he rebutted. The media picked it up first, and when initially questioned, Symonds completely downplayed it, while not excusing the abuse.

You're wrong.

Yes he did .Australian tour management had it branded everywhere that this had happened and that.if they had not let it grow nothing would have happened in further matches.BCCI just did what your board did with monty panesar incident.said there was no proof and it was too late ,But monty panesar had more willpower to not complain.

Again, the comments he made about Harbhajan and Sreesanth were AFTER the series. The media storm was DURING the series.

Before the series, he commented that the Indian team seemed to be a bit too excited about a win in the third rung of the game. These comments were pretty silly. Unfortunately, that has absolutely nothing to do with racial abuse, either by the crowds in India or the alleged incident today.

He was clearly jealous of the reception Indian team got when they came back and the money he got and he reflected it in this comments:-
Andrew Symonds says, “I think we have been pretty humble in the way we have gone about it and personally I think they have got far too carried away with their celebrations. It has definitely sparked passion inside of us.”and more....
He also made comments about sreesanth along with ponting during the series not after.
If you could break your caccoon and get out.
There is a reason why Brett lee and adam gilchrist are liked by Indians and it has nothing to do with their colour and Ethnicity.The indian fan appreciates you if you play fair and even if you do well they will applaud you.But ponting and symonds were abused for a reason.

You also have every right to speak to them. Again, his comments regarding his views on the assignment of blame for the onfield verbals in India have nothing to do with today's alleged incident.

You admitted in your previous post you did see a relation between abuse spreading and him complaining now you deny it.Oh!so like you captain.
Besides refer to above posts which means to the north for your "special" understanding.&to my previous posts.

Speaking hypothetically (because, as I have said, I will wait until the results of the hearing to either condemn or defend Harbhajan's conduct), likening an Afro-Caribbean man to a monkey- particularly after the press coverage regarding how the comparison is historically a racial slur, thus obliterating any "ignorance" defence- is pretty much the top rung of offensive taunts.

It depends really on what he said because and what he said it as.
If he responded to symonds using the c-word by saying that quit"monkeying"arround then it is not racism and symonds sledge was worse.
But if he called him a "monkey" without any provocation then he is stupid and needs to be fined or banned.
But for me symonds deserves a equal ban for me or even greater if he used that four letter word without provocation.
If the charges are not true then the symonds and ponting should get big bans for fabrication of charges.

Also, you won't get very far by trying to pigeonhole me as "you Aussie". I have stated this before, but for the benefit of the perennially slow: I was born of an Indian mother and an English father, and am a naturalised Australian. I have equal affection and loyalty for all parts of my heritage.

Funny how I only ever have to point this out to people who are so caught up in their own nationalist prejudices that they try to project their prejudice onto others...

You can't have the cake and eat it too.
If you are a aussie or a aussie fan then you cannot play the neutral card too.
who cares whether you are half german -half indian ,half woman.I only care that you are a "fully disillusioned" aussie.
Her in India majority of people like to see us all Indians as Indians not based on their mental status or on their ethnicity.
We nearly had a born as italian woman as our prime minster as our prime minister last time before she decided not to accept.
I think it is you who is doubting whether you are a aussie or not i ain't

I made this point in the discussion at the time. I am quite sure that the chants at the first game were perfectly innocent. After the media uproar from that game, and the publicity that the racial connotation was given, the number of people making the "monkey" chants rose significantly.

I agree th this partially but if this complained had not been made by symonds then nothing would have happened.You cannot complain about every small inciden among thousands of spectators.
as i said above he should have done what monty did.

In my reasoned view, the first instance was probably quite innocent, but the bandwagoneers at the next and subsequent games were almost certainly doing it with the knowledge that it would be taken as a racial slur.

Though the subsequent doing should have stopped,they really i do not think got grasp of how significant it is a issue to aussie.
we have had westindies ,srilanka and all countries tour us but this complaint has never occured while it is common practice in australia.
and if symonds thinks that all those people teasing him are aware of his roots and are teasing him because of aus socio structure then god can only help him.

See above. Then pause, and take the opportunity to consider whether or not you should lay off the red cordial. No real reason, mind- I just get the feeling the suggestion might be of use to you.

Bracken: always there with the handy hints.

Do not think everyone does what you do.
And next time keep those unreasoned tips in your own wicked mind.

Fair enough. Notice how I have made a point of not pre-judging him before the charge is heard? Notice how I made it clear how foolish it would be to either condemn OR defend him without the benefit of hearing the evidence?

Notice how, out of you and me, only one of us is following this sage advice?

Notice how, out of the two of us, one of us is coming across as a calm, reasoned observer, and the other is coming across as a probably-unhinged, desperate, nationalistic sycophant?

Coincidence? You be the judge...

My whole argument is based on the fact that harbhajan said what is alleged but i am doubting the context which it was said in.
To judge guilty or not is not possible without having evidence but i will back my player and you seem to be backing yours.
And stop blowing you own trumpet.Your too obsessed with your ownself probaably due to you being a patriotic ,self obsessed,disillusioned,unaccpeting&sore _______.(I will let you fill in the blanks with your 'special" ability.

Indian sociology, courtesy of the galactically simple. Bravo and pass the f-ing gravy.

If you aussies cannot consider indian sociology then why should we consider australian sociology also.
Who cares whether aboriginals were abused or whether somebody else?

Unfortunately, it has exactly NOTHING to do with the matter at hand. The issue is whether or not Harbhajan broke the ICC Code of Conduct, not the hierarchical insult structure of India. If he is found to have been in violation, he will be punished. If not, he won't.

after HALF OF the story ends ,he asks who the main character's are ?
God why did you do this to him?when god was giving out brains were you gone wiping symond's arse or better kissing it?
The issue is whether what he said and in what context if anything?whether that can be construed as racist or not?Will this be decided by australian mindset or indian?
Was symonds also not the guilty party for swearing?(even more)

Hmmph. I can't seem to find the "dropping one's strides and mooning whilst waving one's arse from side to side" smilie anywhere. Must be an omission.

The one you had when you were busy in a room with ponting and symonds and they were giving you some physical lessons or practical explanations on s**?

 

[Unattainableguy]

LOL @ Kapil Dev saying the whole thing is a plan by Australia to put pressure on Harbhajan Singh because they were afraid of a collapse in the 2nd innings.

 

[Cevno]

Sigh.

So, not only are you trying to justify allegedly poor behaviour with past poor behaviour, but you're not even doing THAT right.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but, as I recall, the exchange between McGrath and Sarwan went something like:

McGrath: "Tell me, what does Lara's cevno taste like?

Sarwan: "I don't know. Ask your wife."

Then McGrath acts like a loon.

Sarwan was the only one to mention anyone's family. McGrath, while still being completely in the wrong, didn't.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Mensa aren't beating down your door, right?

AGAIN You start personal abuses and i respond.It does not matter how i respond whether you can construe it as racsim or not.Like bhajji is alleged to have done to symonds.
retort-Sarwan should have replied who is on top when you are with bracken in your room making love?Do you do threesomes with symonds?

coming back to serious business-
Mcgrath after that went loon and abused sarwans parents after which they almost came to blows.
Btw,WHAT ACTION WAS taken against sarwan or mcgrath?

Now ,if you be technical then mcgrath's first statement can be considered as a racist slur because it is a type of did on a particular community of homosexuals?
Now shouldn't mcgrath have been banned harder because of A)starting it B)being racist.

 

[Cevno]

LOL @ Kapil Dev saying the whole thing is a plan by Australia to put pressure on Harbhajan Singh because they were afraid of a collapse in the 2nd innings.

I would not put it past the aussies.
Sidhu was saying that it is good that Indians have taken on the aussies instead of taking abuse quietly on so many occasions.

Aussies are sore losers,and when they have lost they have even blamed spinning pitches for defeats.as if spinners are a smaller part of game.
Do you remember Ponting in last to last ashes going beserk after being runout by a rookie and asking for rule changes and whatnot.

 

[Cevno]

If Harbhajan gets banned would he play any further part in this game, or whatever action that needs to be taken against him would take place after this test.
Anyways if Harbhajan had said something racist to Symonds he should have accepted it and apologised about it, by denying that he even said such a thing he is just making sure this thing turns into a huge controversy and now if he is found guilty then he should severely punished.
Since denying that he said anything racist to Symonds he is basically saying that Symonds is lying and he is cheat, would be interesting to see what Symonds has to say in reply.

a)As Harbhajan has denied it cannot be presumed it was said.
b)Pehaps Harbhajan thinks it was not racist and symonds thinks it was .Is there a fixed parameter of what hurts sentiments?

It's not racist, but it's an ignorant and stupid thing to do. India is full of such little prejudices, where fairness is valued above all else and paler people are generally considered to be more attractive - obviously it isn't racism because it's the same damn race.

The issue is that in India there is almost open racism towards black people. I don't think I'm exaggerating in this regard. India has not gone through what say America has gone through, and race relations and sensitivity there are of a completely different nature. In America, because of the tremendous history of racial tensions and cultural assimilation, there are laws in place and society understands and deals with race issues - India is totally different in that regard.

If Harbhajan was racist, there's no excusing it, but it's qualitatively and fundamentally different from a westerner being racist - it's not better, it's not worse, just very different, and I would think it's a lot less laced with issues of inferiority/hatred/genocide/etc. It's more of a puerile, childish, stupid thing, not as consciously malicious.

Australia really need to stop their stupid sledging. When are they going to understand the cultural differences at play here? Indians just don't say rude **** to each other on the field -there's no "mate culture" and "fishing trips" in India - they should understand that and refrain from it. Maybe it's something the English or the Black Caps would be more accepting of, but I'd definitely think the subcontinentals would not take it the same way. I'm not condoning Harbhajan's behaviour, but I can't help but think it was sadly inevitable.

Good post

This is rich. I suppose now we need a whole bunch of rules on culturally accepted sledging. Something like:

Symonds (possibly repeatedly) : "Hey Harbhajan, you are a **** ."

Harbhahan: "Dude, I am trying to bat like I've never done and you are bothering me needlessly. I need to make you stop or go away so I can focus. The umpires are
not going to ask you to shut up because 'a little bit of fun is OK' per rules of the game.
Where I come from, I could just tell you to stop being a monkey. But I dont have good knowledge of world history to know what someone else's ancestors did to your ancestors which would cause you terrible emotional distress.

Let me consult the match referee on what would be an ICC accepted synonym."

The question I have is, this will take 5 or 10 minutes to resolve. Does that come out of
the bowling sides over rate fine or the batting sides over rate fine?

ps From what I can piece together, what happened was:

Symonds: "Hey Harbhajan, you are a **** ."
Harbhajan "Please stop monkeying around with me."

If that is true then symonds is bigger offender for me.
Good post.

 

[Nishant]

What did Lehmann do?

EDIT: Hey Nishant I see your viewing this thread. Dude you're in first year medicine right? Can I catch you on msn, if you're not busy, had a few questions.

sorry mate...probably went off as soon as u typed this lol....no probs mate ask anything u want!...BTW...my new MSN for evryone:

nish-shah@hotmail.co.uk

 

[silentstriker]

Student Doctor Network? Yeah I am on there tbh, that and premed101, but it was just some specific questions I had for him, or else I could've just asked you .

Anyways, what did Lehmann do?

What's your name on SDN?

 

[Matt79]

Great effort by Sachin yesterday - has made an Indian win the only alternative to a draw IMO (although a draw seems the most likely result). Jeez the bloke is gun.

The inability of the Aussie's to rip through the tail exposed that we will in fact missed McGrath and especially Warne. Letting any side score 200 for the last 3 wickets simply isn't good enough, although credit must go to Sachin for that as well as blame to the Aussie bowlers.

Johnson will have another chance in India's second innings, but I think he's not done enough to prevent Tait being given a chance. He's not been awful, but only average, and its possible Tait might be no better, but if we want to straighten out the pecking order between those two, Tait needs to get a go. He'll sometimes be wayward or go for a few runs, but he'll always been threatening as well, even to set batsmen, and I reckon he'd be better able to adapt to bowling out the tail than Johnson was yesterday.

 

[Laurrz]

knew Sunny would say something like that at the end

 

[Jono]

Firstly, God I hate Harbhajan so much. Just an idiot really.

Anywaay Sunil Gavaskar shaking it up now in the C9 commentary box.

Something along the lines of, if the umpires didn't hear it, this means that the Australian way of what happens on the field, stays on the field, seems not to apply here, since its been reported to the umpire.

Because its still unclear whether what was said was deemed racist, or simply offensive (there is a difference).

 

[Laurrz]

Tony Greig needs to understand this COULD be racist.. definately if it isnt racist than what he says is true..and this charge is for racism...

'what goes on in the middle stays on in the middle' can't apply to racist comments surely..

 

[Turbinator]

What's your name on SDN?

By on there I meant I regularly go on there and see what's happening. I do my posting on premed101 (with the username TurboCC), which is basically just the Canadian version of SDN and more premed related. But yeah will probably end up making an account on SDN as well, once I am in premed, as more questions will arise at that time.

What's your name on SDN?

 

[silentstriker]

Lokhtar

 

[funnygirl]

Will Bhajji play ? what is the news update ?

 

[Pratters]

Will Bhajji play ? what is the news update ?

The hearing will be held after the test AFAIK. So he is very much playing this test.

 

[Days of Grace]

Great effort by Sachin yesterday - has made an Indian win the only alternative to a draw IMO (although a draw seems the most likely result). .

Disagree. Australia can still win this test if they score 350 runs today, they have a 280 run lead. Then declare and see what happens, if they are game enough.