*Official* India in Australia Thread

[marc71178]

Only 2 seamers?!

 

[Salamuddin]

squad i Think indian selectors will pick

Let's see how close I actually get.....


1. V Sehwag
2. A CHopra
3. R Dravid
4. S Tendulkar
5. S Ganguly
6 V Laxman
7 P Patel
8 H Singh
9 Z Khan
10 A Nehra
11 A Agarkar
12 A Salvi
13 A Kumble
14 S Ramesh
15 A Ratra
16 Either Srinath if he's available or possibly Bhandari/Balaji

 

[Salamuddin]

VVS Laxman

Kenny....you're wrong when you say that Laxman had trouble
with the bounce last time

In India's first tour game, against QLd, easily Aus's best domestic side of the past few years, on a pacy Gabba wicket Laxman smacked 113 and 73.

He did well in the other tour games. Apart from a 40 in Adelaide and of course the famous 167 in Sydney, he failed in the tests.
However, a lot of dismissals were charactersied by seemingly poor concentration.
Laxman is actually a very good player of the horizontal bat shots which is needed on the faster, bouncier tracks and I think mentally he is an improved player from 1999/2000.

A lot of people say that Laxman is overrated because he has done nothing of note since the 281.
This is quite far from the truth - in the 20 odd tests since Calcutta 2001 Laxman has averaged around 48 - ghardly a sign of failure.

 

[V Reddy]

Yeah Laxman was India's best batsman in the side games. But on the other side even AA played a match winning knock against NSW.

 

[esgallindeion]

V.V.S Laxman hates opening and he has said that several times. If the team forces him to open, it will be at best a compromise from him and I don't think we will see his best in that position.

Rahul Dravid has been fantastic at No:3, he has been shunted up and down the order so many times and is just settling down in this position, changing it again wouldn't be a good idea IMO.

Sehwag is a wonderful talent who can really hit form in the middle order, I feel. Unfortunately, then we need 2 specialist openers and the captain won't have a place in the side...!!!

My ideal team would have any two of Gambhir, Chopra, Ramesh, Jaffer or even S.S Das to open, Sehwag in the middle order and either Dravid or maybe even Tendulkar to captain.....

1. I really recall reading someplace that laxman said he wouldn't mind opening.

2. Dravid, unlike some other players, isn't a batsman who needs to settle in one position. The fact that he has done well in 2-3 different positions proves this. And I'm sure he won't mind opening IF AND ONLY IF its really essential.

3. No point in getting someone like Gambhir to Australia when he still needs more exposure to international cricket. And imo, its Idia should keep Ganguly as captain. tendulkar will be much better as the best batsman of the team who gives useful advice from time to time.

 

[V Reddy]

1. I really recall reading someplace that laxman said he wouldn't mind opening.

But he later said that he was misquoted and that he doesn't intend to open.

 

[Anil]

1. I really recall reading someplace that laxman said he wouldn't mind opening.

2. Dravid, unlike some other players, isn't a batsman who needs to settle in one position. The fact that he has done well in 2-3 different positions proves this. And I'm sure he won't mind opening IF AND ONLY IF its really essential.

3. No point in getting someone like Gambhir to Australia when he still needs more exposure to international cricket. And imo, its Idia should keep Ganguly as captain. tendulkar will be much better as the best batsman of the team who gives useful advice from time to time.

1. Vishnu has already answered that question.

2. How do you know? He, like Tendulkar is a classy batsman who can probably succeed in any given position, but the fact that he hasn't volunteered for the opener's slot even though the team has been making do with makeshift openers in tests for sometime now shows that he doesn't really want the spot. Also, the team management hasn't seen fit to push him into that position even though they know that he has the best techinque in the team along with Tendulkar.

3. Question: How do you get more exposure to international cricket? Answer: by playing in the team. It's not as if we have other openers to take to Australia who have succeeded over there before....As far as captaincy goes, I am more inclined towards making Dravid captain than Tendulkar.

 

[esgallindeion]

1. Ok, I stand corrected.

2. I know because I have seen him and Sachin play for... well... the last 7-8 years. And when I say "I know" I don't mean to say that Dravid WILL do better as an opener, but that I feel he'll be much better an opener in Test Cricket than Tendulkar. Dravid hasn't opted because Chopra and Sehwag shld do the job. And with Gambhir and co also waiting for their chances, the situation might not have seemed desparate enough for him. But I'm sure he wld, if such an situation arose.

3. Now India A is also beginning to tour foreign countries. I think they did well in a cpl of tours (not sure, as I don't follow junior level cricket). But I think now that something like this has been formed, it'd be better to let Gambhir play as much as he can for India A and get as much of experience playing in foreign conditions as possible before throwing him to the mighty Aussies. If you bring him to the team right for the Australian series later this year, it wld be nothing short of throwing a lamb in a wolf's path. He might do well, but chances wld be that he wld not.

 

[roofromoz]

I think that this COULD be a close series.

The Australians will probably win quite comfortably in Brisbane. In Adelaide, it should be a high scoring match with the big names getting in amongst the runs - I would not be surprised if that is a drawn match. The Australians will probably register the sealer in Melbourne, but Sydney is where the Indians may be a chance - the pitch will give runs to their batsmen, and later on may provide some assistance to their spinners. The Indians could very well secure an extremely rare away victory there.

So, I'm predicting a 2-1 victory to the Australians. But then again, it could very well end up 4-0 to us. It depends on the squad the Indians bring out, and whether they can adapt to the conditions.

Should be interesting.

 

[esgallindeion]

And don't forget the confidence factor. Unless India do something miraculous to win the 2nd test against the kiwis (which is almost impossible) or win the tri series quite convincingly, they won't find themselves quite the team they thought themselves to be during the world cup.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

1. Ok, I stand corrected.

2. I know because I have seen him and Sachin play for... well... the last 7-8 years. And when I say "I know" I don't mean to say that Dravid WILL do better as an opener, but that I feel he'll be much better an opener in Test Cricket than Tendulkar. Dravid hasn't opted because Chopra and Sehwag shld do the job. And with Gambhir and co also waiting for their chances, the situation might not have seemed desparate enough for him. But I'm sure he wld, if such an situation arose.

3. Now India A is also beginning to tour foreign countries. I think they did well in a cpl of tours (not sure, as I don't follow junior level cricket). But I think now that something like this has been formed, it'd be better to let Gambhir play as much as he can for India A and get as much of experience playing in foreign conditions as possible before throwing him to the mighty Aussies. If you bring him to the team right for the Australian series later this year, it wld be nothing short of throwing a lamb in a wolf's path. He might do well, but chances wld be that he wld not.

I think dravid can make a decent opener but shouldnt really if he doesnt want to. I am an indian, for 10 years of my life i folled them religiously and believe tm ewhen i say not a lot of people have seen more of Indian cricket than myself although i have slacked dwon in the last 5 years, what withe me moving to england and all...

And

Dravid hasn't opted because Chopra and Sehwag shld do the job

is crazy as India have always had to do wih makeshift openers and have done so for some time and as Vishnu said he hasnt because he may not want to and The Indian coaches have seen that so they havent asked him to.

 

[Anil]

1. Ok, I stand corrected.

2. I know because I have seen him and Sachin play for... well... the last 7-8 years. And when I say "I know" I don't mean to say that Dravid WILL do better as an opener, but that I feel he'll be much better an opener in Test Cricket than Tendulkar. Dravid hasn't opted because Chopra and Sehwag shld do the job. And with Gambhir and co also waiting for their chances, the situation might not have seemed desparate enough for him. But I'm sure he wld, if such an situation arose.

3. Now India A is also beginning to tour foreign countries. I think they did well in a cpl of tours (not sure, as I don't follow junior level cricket). But I think now that something like this has been formed, it'd be better to let Gambhir play as much as he can for India A and get as much of experience playing in foreign conditions as possible before throwing him to the mighty Aussies. If you bring him to the team right for the Australian series later this year, it wld be nothing short of throwing a lamb in a wolf's path. He might do well, but chances wld be that he wld not.

1. Thanks.

2. There was never any comparsion between Dravid and Tendulkar as possible openers for India, so let's not bring a non-issue into this. I just said they are both classy players who can probably succeed in any position, that's all.

When you say that Sehwag and Chopra should do the job, you forget that Sehwag is also a makeshift opener who has never really looked at ease in that position in tests except one or two innings here and there and has gone on record saying that he wants to be in the middle order in tests.

So, according to your argument, why wasn't Dravid used as an opener instead of Sehwag(or even Bangar) in the first place when he looked better technically equipped to handle that position? There are several possible answers: He didn't want that position(possible), it would have left a big hole at No: 3(quite probable), he wasn't confident enough to handle the position(possible but not probable).....All these statements apply to the present scenario also....My point is that the opening slot is a very specialised spot in tests which not everyone wishes to tackle, so why shouldn't we go for a long-term solution trying out specialist openers instead of stop-gap efforts?

3. You have a point there, but Gambhir has played well in the last India A tour to England, is widely accepted as having the talent and temperament for opening in tests, so why not try him out? In fact IMO he should have been tried out in the NZ series itself. I understand that the Australian tour will be a huge first challenge for him, but so will it be for Chopra unless you are saying that playing a mediocre NZ attack on dead Indian pitches is sufficient preparation for playing Australia in Australia.

 

[marc71178]

Anil, could one argue that with practise Sehwag may become one - he's been doing it a fair while for a "stop-gap"

 

[esgallindeion]

1. Thanks.

2. There was never any comparsion between Dravid and Tendulkar as possible openers for India, so let's not bring a non-issue into this. I just said they are both classy players who can probably succeed in any position, that's all.

When you say that Sehwag and Chopra should do the job, you forget that Sehwag is also a makeshift opener who has never really looked at ease in that position in tests except one or two innings here and there and has gone on record saying that he wants to be in the middle order in tests.

So, according to your argument, why wasn't Dravid used as an opener instead of Sehwag(or even Bangar) in the first place when he looked better technically equipped to handle that position? There are several possible answers: He didn't want that position(possible), it would have left a big hole at No: 3(quite probable), he wasn't confident enough to handle the position(possible but not probable).....All these statements apply to the present scenario also....My point is that the opening slot is a very specialised spot in tests which not everyone wishes to tackle, so why shouldn't we go for a long-term solution trying out specialist openers instead of stop-gap efforts?

3. You have a point there, but Gambhir has played well in the last India A tour to England, is widely accepted as having the talent and temperament for opening in tests, so why not try him out? In fact IMO he should have been tried out in the NZ series itself. I understand that the Australian tour will be a huge first challenge for him, but so will it be for Chopra unless you are saying that

playing a mediocre NZ attack on dead Indian pitches is sufficient preparation for playing Australia in Australia.

1. ...
2. I didn't mean to compare their batting abilities, but just to show that 'in case the situarion demands' Dravid as an opener is a much better choice.

I think Sehwag and Chopra should open in Australia (even though Sehwag's defence isn't really great) because it would provide stability to the team. If you wanted gambhir to open for India in Australia, it would have been better to let him open against New Zealand as well. This is what I meant all along.

And don't you think Sehwag has been opening long enough to almost become a regular opener?

I don't want Dravid to open... I want him to bat at no 3. But in case the team is finding it hard to get in a regular opener and Sehwag fails in say... the first 2 tests, then it would be much better for Dravid to open and Laxman at no 3 with Sehwag at no 6.

Its all very well to talk about finding a long term answer. Gambhir comes to one's mind. But whose place will he take? Most people would say Ganguly. But his captaincy is more important to the team than his batting. And I don't think the selectors would remove him in a hurry. So then what?

It all comes down to make use of the 11 that you have.

3. If you wanted to try him out, why not try him out for the current New Zealand series? It would make more sense as its a much easier situation for him to get some confidence before the Australian tour.

 

[Kenny]

Re: VVS Laxman

Kenny....you're wrong when you say that Laxman had trouble
with the bounce last time
He did well in the other tour games. Apart from a 40 in Adelaide and of course the famous 167 in Sydney, he failed in the tests.
However, a lot of dismissals were charactersied by seemingly poor concentration.

We'll see mate........he had trouble with something, if he made 1 score over 50 in six test innings, and I don't think 'concentration' covers it.
He looked very uncomfortable against the ball around the armpit/throat area - it may not have got him out, but I do think it is a weakness, and I think I will be proved right.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: VVS Laxman

We'll see mate........he had trouble with something, if he made 1 score over 50 in six test innings, and I don't think 'concentration' covers it.
He looked very uncomfortable against the ball around the armpit/throat area - it may not have got him out, but I do think it is a weakness, and I think I will be proved right.

Mark Waugh has looked incredibly uncomfortable against the short ball for the last 4 years or so. Even to some ends where he just lets the ball hit him!
It rarely gets him out so it can't be called a weakness.
The reason Laxman failed last time, IMO, was simple - he was opening and he's a middle-order player.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Re: Re: Re: VVS Laxman

Mark Waugh has looked incredibly uncomfortable against the short ball for the last 4 years or so. Even to some ends where he just lets the ball hit him!
It rarely gets him out so it can't be called a weakness.

Dillon got him out with back-of-a-length balls a fair few times last time WI toured.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

When you say that Sehwag and Chopra should do the job, you forget that Sehwag is also a makeshift opener who has never really looked at ease in that position in tests except one or two innings here and there and has gone on record saying that he wants to be in the middle order in tests.

yes, sehwag is looking completely uneasy in his 3rd ton whiole opening....

i dont see why laxman cant try to play at no:3 IF and only IF india experiment with Dravid opening.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: VVS Laxman

Dillon got him out with back-of-a-length balls a fair few times last time WI toured.

Yes, I remember reading that Dillon had troubled him quite a bit, and judging by the number of man-for-man dismissals that much was true.
However, the impression I got was that he got his man by jagging it away late, from his customary large angle, not by miscued pull-shots or catches at short-leg.
After all, that has proved the best way to dismiss Junior Waugh down the years.

 

[marc71178]

Re: Re: Re: Re: VVS Laxman

Dillon got him out with back-of-a-length balls a fair few times last time WI toured.

Maybe that was more to do with Dillon's lightning pace?