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Official Gibbs Ban Thread

Slow Love™

International Captain
NB. This is a general comment, not specifically on this case.


In a competition where teams represent countries, where does barracking against the other team and their supporters cross the line to racism?

To me at least, "F**king Pakistani team/supporters" is ethically a lot different to "F**king Pakistanis", but it's very easy to shorten the former into the latter and wind up being misconstrued.
Yeah, I was thinking about this last night. The way that teams are formulated obviously encourages us to praise and criticise, support or oppose players on national lines. In fact, although hilarious in some respects, the ICC's (or was it Cricket Australia, I forgot) decision to release a list of national epithets that were deemed appropriate to vilify your opponent on the basis of the country they came from made this quite clear. In some ways it makes sense, and I think most of us can tell the difference between what's OK and what isn't considered OK (and this will be shaped by politics and the times), but on the other hand, some national identities (or even just cultural ones) seem to dovetail with racial identities. Worse still, to the ignorant or the bigoted, important distinctions tend not to apply (so you get Pakistanis derided as Indians, or Japanese referred to as Chinks, etc, etc, etc).

But ultimately, because we encourage such an adversarial relationship between the nations both on the field and as spectators, we ought to be careful about how we perceive comments directed at country of origin or nationality (which is why I'm cautious about the labelling of Gibbs' remarks ("for the record"). Generally, obviously context has to be the guide. I do think that players should be careful not to make generalised remarks about people based on color of skin, nationality, etc, but nobody could say that our approach to this isn't confusing at times.
 

archie mac

International Coach
After reading all of the posts in this thread it seems to me that most people:

Don't think Gibbs was being racist, but he still should not have made those comments and deserved to be punished.

I just hope that Gibbs will not be subjected to too much 'crap' during the WC, should just let it fade away and move on
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I said fifty years :), and neither played enough tests.
They didn't play many officially-recorded Tests, no, but both played plenty of reprisentitive games against strong opposition and performed admirably (added to their stunning First-Class records).

Fair 'nuff 'bout the 50 years thing, though. :)
And Agarkar and Khan had it in them to be decent when they burst on the scene too (Agarkar quickest to 50 wickets in ODI for example).
Neither ever really looked the part in Tests, though? Khan's last series was about the best he's ever bowled, surely (except maybe for that NZ series on seamer's paradises)?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Sorry but the notion that Gibbs was applying a racial slur to an entire country simply because he addressed 3 or 4 individuals by their nationality is absolutely ludicrous.

As I've said earlier, penalise him for bringing the game into disrepute, etc but there is absolutely no evidence that he was applying a derogatory racial stereotype.
No, but he was applying a derogatory stereotype, whether he intended to or not.

The "racist" term is IMO the wrong one, but the two words on either side remain.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Sorry but getting on national tv or radio and making a catch-all phrase like those above when potentially addressing millions of people is a totally different scenario
Cricket is not on national TV or radio?

Sorry?

Worse still, it's on international radio. Whether you are directly addressing your audience is irrelevant. The comments have the same effect.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
TBF he seemed too shocked to do so to me.

Who knows, however... this conversation may or may not have taken place away from stump-mics with no-one to eavesdrop...

Loye: I just don't ****ing believe this, did you hear what those Australian t***s were yelling at me?
Collingwood: nah?
Loye: (repeat a few), it's absolutely unbelievable. Little k***z should go back to the zoo where they belong, send half this wretched country there while you're at it, they're all like it
 

pasag

RTDAS
Not sure why there is even a debate about this, one of the most clear cut subjects going around imo. It was a racist comment and he should pay the price. Not sure why people try and water it down and say oh, it's only a nationalistic thing. It clearly wasn't.

Also, everytime I read about it in The Age it says the word "baboon" was used. What is up with that?
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Cricket is not on national TV or radio?

Sorry?

Worse still, it's on international radio. Whether you are directly addressing your audience is irrelevant. The comments have the same effect.
So what should Paul Nixon's fate be as he was clearly seen calling Hussey several nasty names including shock, horror, gasp "Australian"?
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Out of curiosity, if Gibbs called them "****ing Pakis" would there be a larger uproar?
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
So what should Paul Nixon's fate be as he was clearly seen calling Hussey several nasty names including shock, horror, gasp "Australian"?
Tried to explain it to you. I don't think you'll ever agree. If you can't tell the difference, I'm not sure how else anyone can put it. Best to extricate myself from the discussion at this point.

silentstriker said:
Anyway mate, I know you've been copping a lot from a lot of Asians (not all) on the board, but you have to understand that a lot of us disagree with you on the context as most times when we hear the comments, they are very much racist and/or bigoted. That's all.

I know you disagree, and that's cool. I wish people could take these comments and just laugh them off, and hopefully one day they can, but as of now when people hear this it is invariably associated with racism in society because thats how a lot of racists talk. And when these types of comments are made, there is usually a lot of hate behind it. I'm sure Gibbs didn't have the hate, but it is impossible not to think of hate when hearing something like that. That's where the beef lies. I haven't seen many people accuse Gibbs of being racist (at least most people on this board have gone out of their way to clarify that, including me), but I don't see how I can interpret the comments themselves as anything but bigoted.

Anyway, time for my nap. Not sure what else I can add to this discussion.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Out of curiosity, if Gibbs called them "****ing Pakis" would there be a larger uproar?
Absolutely. I don't think people in Oz realise quite how offensive the P-word (which I see is now removed from the filter :huh:) is considered in the UK. It's on a par with the N-word. It's undoubtedly a racial slur &, as Broad is a Pom after all, my guess is that he would've thrown the book at Gibbs. Rightly so, IMHO, using it is prima facie evidence of racist intent on Gibbs's part. "Pakistani" isn't.
 

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