*Official* Fourth Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) 19-23 July

[social]

Just lol at Moeen batting 3

Lucky not to have been dropped after his shot in the first innings of the last test & was horrible at 3 in the second

There’s Hail Mary’s & then there’s absolutely blind faith with no justification whatsoever

This is the latter

 

[Qlder]

I'm looking forward to Smith maintaining his average at Old Trafford, it's 100.25

 

[Adders]

Just lol at Moeen batting 3

Lucky not to have been dropped after his shot in the first innings of the last test & was horrible at 3 in the second

There’s Hail Mary’s & then there’s absolutely blind faith with no justification whatsoever

This is the latter

I think your missing the point here tbh. I'm not particularly for or against Mo at 3 but I certainly can see the logic. For better or worse he's the chosen spinner and he he's grabbing a couple of wickets without getting smacked around the park he's done his job.

There's going to be a hole in the batting lineup regardless......just depends where you put it. Mo is a pawn at 3....but the benefits are in the middle order and tbh it worked at TB.

It's not ideal for sure but if we're sticking with this squad of players it does at least make some sense.

 

[Spark]

It does sound like Marsh will play but so will Hazlewood. So at least for the bowlers, the idea of the pecking order remains paramount.

 

[ashley bach]

No doubt the nine day leg-up will suit Paddy well because it really looked like he needed it.

 

[ashley bach]

Pecking order schmecking order. Crazy if Marsh doesn't play because he so obviously looked in pristine form and it's such an important match...

 

[the big bambino]

If Green is in for marsh, does that mean Harris in for Warner (if true that the latter is dropped)?

Probably to counter Moeen batting up the order.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think they want to show everyone how confident they are

Pumping out that big dick energy.

 

[Burgey]

and tbh it worked at TB.

I don’t know that it did though. He made five and batted 15 balls. Root and Brook had some protection because the openers put on 40 odd. I think you could argue the move worked in the context of the game if he’d chipped in with 30 odd. If he does that this test I reckon you’ll have got some value out of it

 

[GIMH]

I get all the objections to Ali at 3. But for me, Root at 4, Brook at 5, it feels like a stronger lineup than if you put one or the other at 3 and Ali at 7.

Scoring a few isn’t beyond Mo, but if we lose an early wicket then Root is probably in at 10-2. But that’s not exactly unfamiliar either

 

[Burgey]

is England announcing lineups early new they did this in the past too

They want the opposition to think “oh wow, they must be really confident, they already know they’re going to bat a number 8 at three to protect two other blokes who aren’t up for it, like the press has predicted for two weeks. We obviously have to brick it now.”*

*no one GAF. They aren’t Waugh’s side. They could let them change their team after the toss and no one would give a ****, because they haven’t got that many viable options anyway.

 

[honestbharani]

The issue with Mo at 3 is his difficulties with the short ball. I think he could find it within himself to rein himself in, get himself set before going for his shots, OR he could just counter attack like Head or Pant but at 3, but the moment Aussies would switch to plan B (and it would be stupid to have this as plan A in most circumstances and conditions) and start bowling short, he just seems to tense up and then is gullible to both the bouncer and the sucker full(ish) ball. Very Raina problem, he has.

 

[halba]

latest- only one change in the XI- Hazlewood for Boland

Warner the walking wicket stays.

Cam Green not recalled- shows he has declined in form.

Note Draw is possible, DAY 4&5 is heavy rain(subject to change - a storm is forecast likely washed out)- relatively clear DAY 1-3 though.

 

[Spark]

It sounds like the toss-up is now between Green and Murphy and like... really?

I guess we won't have to worry about the lower order lacking depth. Imagine if we picked Neser too, Cummins would bat 11!

 

[SteveNZ]

I don’t know that it did though. He made five and batted 15 balls. Root and Brook had some protection because the openers put on 40 odd. I think you could argue the move worked in the context of the game if he’d chipped in with 30 odd. If he does that this test I reckon you’ll have got some value out of it

Yeah, I mean you can say it worked because England won, which to me seems a bit simplistic. If Ali batted 15 balls, and that partnership was 30 balls (CBF checking if so) that's saying that Joe Root needed a 5-over older ball to be at his best. Which is a bit nutty. Or he needed to sit for 15-20 minutes more, or maybe (dunno) he doesn't like the feeling of sitting there at first drop thinking he could be out there second nut. Which would surprise me given he's carried England's hopes, physically and mentally, for years.

I'm not arguing against it, incidentally. I'd bat him at 3 potentially too, either him or Bairstow. I do appreciate there's an overall balance above Moeen isn't a 3's asshole at 36 years of age, 2 years out of FC cricket.

 

[Spark]

Yeah, I mean you can say it worked because England won, which to me seems a bit simplistic. If Ali batted 15 balls, and that partnership was 30 balls (CBF checking if so) that's saying that Joe Root needed a 5-over older ball to be at his best. Which is a bit nutty. Or he needed to sit for 15-20 minutes more, or maybe (dunno) he doesn't like the feeling of sitting there at first drop thinking he could be out there second nut. Which would surprise me given he's carried England's hopes, physically and mentally, for years.

I'm not arguing against it, incidentally. I'd bat him at 3 potentially too, either him or Bairstow. I do appreciate there's an overall balance above Moeen isn't a 3's asshole at 36 years of age, 2 years out of FC cricket.

I don't think it's an awful idea if he has to play in the side and they have to stick with this balance, but this is basically nightwatchman logic - if he makes a few that's a bonus but his job is to protect the top order etc.

Not even saying it's wrong but it is jarring to hear about a Test match #3.

 

[Gob]

It sounds like the toss-up is now between Green and Murphy and like... really?

I guess we won't have to worry about the lower order lacking depth. Imagine if we picked Neser too, Cummins would bat 11!

Looks that way. Don't feel great about going in to a game without a front line spinner but if Murphy's going to be used like the last game, I'd take extra batting

 

[SteveNZ]

I don't think it's an awful idea if he has to play in the side and they have to stick with this balance, but this is basically nightwatchman logic - if he makes a few that's a bonus but his job is to protect the top order etc.

Not even saying it's wrong but it is jarring to hear about a Test match #3.

Couldn't agree more. Let's say over a year ago, before Baz took over, you'd said a guy will bat 3 in the 4th Ashes Test, at 1-2 down, who was one game back from 2 years out of all long form cricket, and failed twice in reasonably spectacular fashion in his first game back at No.8. You'd think England had fallen even lower than you felt possible.

I just don't know what the alternative is. Clearly Root doesn't want to bat 3. Brook isn't a Test 3. Bairstow, to me, should be the guy backing himself to do it (not Moeen) but clearly he didn't knock on Baz's door and demand that. So what are you left with? You can pick another 3 from county cricket, but then you have to drop your spinner to let Root do the job.

 

[Spark]

Looks that way. Don't feel great about going in to a game without a front line spinner but if Murphy's going to be used like the last game, I'd take extra batting

I almost want them to pick Neser too now just for how hilarious the batting lineup will look. We'll basically be like the women's team, cramming a million all-rounders into the side and a batting order which never ends.

 

[Victor Ian]

but this is basically nightwatchman logic

Maybe he should be night watchman, and face first ball of the day and protect an opener too.