*Official* First Test (Edgbaston, Birmingham) 16–20 June

[trundler]

in case you missed it it's the part where he got dropped for marcus harris and/or matthew wade (and arguably david warner, who did not have strong domestic work to call upon due to being suspended for 12 months for ball tampering)

Because he deserved to be dropped and those were the leading FC batsmen.

 

[ataraxia]

Because he deserved to be dropped and those were the leading FC batsmen.

Not following this conversation but thought I might point out that these aren't independent things. The thought process isn't "man, this incumbent guy is crap, let's drop him" -> "who should we replace him with"; it's "I think this guy is now a better pick than the incumbent" all in one. Duh, I know, but it seems to be the crux of your argument.

 

[Starfighter]

It virtually never used to happen as conventional thinking was to angle across & get them nicking off

I can imagine it's more effective now that not many batsmen are as good on the back foot as the pre-helmet era ones.

 

[social]

Nintindo

I never seen english Wicket keeper this much Sloppy in Ashes never never before.... Ben Foakes should back & Johnny need to play only as specialist batsman.

ABD Villers denied to keep wicket later part of his test career, when you get old or returns After sometime you not concentrate much.

The Foakes v Bairstow argument is nonsense IMO

Foakes is a quality test wk/batsman and should be an automatic selection in that

Bairstow is one of the best 3-4 batsmen in England and should be an automatic selection AS A BATSMAN

 

[Spikey]

Because he deserved to be dropped and those were the leading FC batsmen.

at the time of the dropping, marcus harris had 7 test matches over the previous 10 months for an average of 29.5 (lower than Usman's average in that same time frame).

it was a dud call that exemplifies the ways we make selecting cricket teams so much harder than it needs to be (and the irony is Usman was on the beneficial side when we did the same nonsense in 2013)

 

[GIMH]

I had a dream last night that Burgey had the ability to edit all my posts

I clearly spend too much time on this forum, but Jesus what a nightmare

 

[trundler]

Not following this conversation but thought I might point out that these aren't independent things. The thought process isn't "man, this incumbent guy is crap, let's drop him" -> "who should we replace him with"; it's "I think this guy is now a better pick than the incumbent" all in one. Duh, I know, but it seems to be the crux of your argument.

What I'm saying is both Khawaja deserved to dropped and Wade/Harris deserved a run. Would be weird to say Wade didn't deserve a second chance here.

at the time of the dropping, marcus harris had 7 test matches over the previous 10 months for an average of 29.5 (lower than Usman's average in that same time frame).

it was a dud call that exemplifies the ways we make selecting cricket teams so much harder than it needs to be (and the irony is Usman was on the beneficial side when we did the same nonsense in 2013)

Harris is 6 years younger and was seen as an up and comer at the time. With his FC cred he deserved a decently long rope though he received twice as much of what was warranted.

 

[Spikey]

What I'm saying is both Khawaja deserved to dropped and Wade/Harris deserved a run. Would be weird to say Wade didn't deserve a second chance here.
Harris is 6 years younger and was seen as an up and comer at the time. With his FC cred he deserved a decently long rope though he received twice as much of what was warranted.

Strictly speaking he received three times the length of rope, as instead of being dropped after one test it was three tests

 

[social]

I can imagine it's more effective now that not many batsmen are as good on the back foot as the pre-helmet era ones.

Different skill sets and strategies from the bowlers as well

A quick bowler going around the wicket to a left hander only used to happen when they were really struggling or to create rough for spinners

That only started to change in the 90s

 

[social]

Daily reminder that Marcus ****ing Harris has the worst test record of any specialist Australian batsman with a similar number of tests in history

 

[Shady Slim]

Harris is 6 years younger and was seen as an up and comer at the time. With his FC cred he deserved a decently long rope though he received twice as much of what was warranted.

to paraphrase what social said you have to possess a polished smooth rock where your brain should be if you thought harris would do anything other than exactly what he did in test cricket

 

[halba]

The Foakes v Bairstow argument is nonsense IMO

Foakes is a quality test wk/batsman and should be an automatic selection in that

Bairstow is one of the best 3-4 batsmen in England and should be an automatic selection AS A BATSMAN

absolutely correct. this has been my point. those drop chances - 2 of them, can cost 100-150 runs especially on these very placid decks...its very essential to have a keeper- Foakes average with bat is 32 which is more than acceptable.

 

[halba]

Our lack of backup batting options is a real concern. Right now its basically the current lineup then zilch. Ide say open with head but our middle order options to replace him aren't great either.

wheres mitchell marsh - his style of Bazball type hitting suited to these pitches.

 

[trundler]

to paraphrase what social said you have to possess a polished smooth rock where your brain should be if you thought harris would do anything other than exactly what he did in test cricket

He earned the opportunity though

 

[Shady Slim]

He earned the opportunity though

if your only selection criteria is an excel spreadsheet then by all means

 

[social]

He earned the opportunity though

And that’s fine for about 3 tests but not 14

He got exposed early on and hasn’t improved at all

 

[the big bambino]

Different skill sets and strategies from the bowlers as well

A quick bowler going around the wicket to a left hander only used to happen when they were really struggling or to create rough for spinners

That only started to change in the 90s

First time I saw it was Hoggy to Gower in the late 70s because there was a belief you could cramp him on the cut. It worked too.

 

[mustardcharlie]

All this talk of future openers.wicketkeepers (Well batted Usman/Wade btw) is hardly. How do those considering an England/Australia win think it will play out?

 

[trundler]

Hating on selectors and coaches is something nerds do to get off because they think they know better. No one acknowledges out there calls that worked like debuting Bumrah in SA, sticking with Wagner, picking Carey ahead of Inglis, picking Jansen ahead of a host of promising pacers, sticking Wade down the order in T20s, and yet people expect them to perfectly predict which blokes who've succeeded at every level of the age group to FC pipeline will do well in tests. CW wants cricketers to be phased out as soon as they hit 30 and bemoans Greg Chapellism at the same time. You guys want Harris dumped after 3 tests but I guarantee you there would've been as much, if not more, moaning about too much chopping and changing if that's what they start doing.

 

[Shady Slim]

Hating on selectors and coaches is something nerds do to get off because they think they know better. No one acknowledges out there calls that worked like debuting Bumrah in SA, sticking with Wagner, picking Carey ahead of Inglis, picking Jansen ahead of a host of promising pacers, sticking Wade down the order in T20s, and yet people expect them to perfectly predict which blokes who've succeeded at every level of the age group to FC pipeline will do well in tests. CW wants cricketers to be phased out as soon as they hit 30 and bemoans Greg Chapellism at the same time. You guys want Harris dumped after 3 tests but I guarantee you there would've been as much, if not more, moaning about too much chopping and changing if that's what they start doing.

trundler you are correct on principle that selectorial risks can pay off and those which go against conventional wisdom can come up big and leave an egg on the face of the doubters

you have to understand though that anyone who watched marcus harris play cricket for longer than fifteen seconds knew he would get eaten alive in england given the pitches they were rolling out for that series