*Official* Fifth Test (The Oval, London) 27-31 July

[91Jmay]

There is probably too much doubt so not out a fair call, always think bat should get benefit of the doubt (I have no idea why, but I just do)

 

[Spark]

Oh I see what Butcher is talking about now - he's saying that because Bairstow broke the off stump early, it's the leg bail which now determines the decision. Is that how the law works? That's insanely, unbelievably technical if so

 

[ripper868]

But legit, why are there 14 Under 18 players fielding for England?

 

[Spark]

There is probably too much doubt so not out a fair call, always think bat should get benefit of the doubt (I have no idea why, but I just do)

I think it's because not out is the "base case" so to speak - you have to prove a legitimate dismissal, rather than the other way around.

 

[Daemon]

Butcher is completely wrong here. This has nothing to do with Bairstow breaking the stumps early, it's entirely about when the stumps are actually broken

Yeah what are they on about? The bail needs to be completely removed isn't it? What does Bairstow touching it and causing one side to come up have to do with it?

 

[Spark]

Haha too good that they had Ponting on comms when that happened though.

 

[Socerer 01]

hmm yes us armchair experts are right and not the trained umpire on an obscure technicality

 

[Ashes81]

I have to be honest I'm not 100% sure of the rules when that happens. Was the bail dislodged and does that matter if Bairstow hit the other stump?

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

He's out by more than a dick length but the third umpire choked on it

 

[loterry1994]

Haha too good that they had Ponting on comms when that happened though.

Ponting probably already threw his coffee on the floor before the decision

 

[Spark]

Yeah what are they on about? The bail needs to be completely removed isn't it? What does Bairstow touching it and causing one side to come up have to do with it?

I think because the off bail was broken early, it's no longer "live" - only the leg bail counts and it definitely didn't fall until after Smith was already in. But I wasn't aware you could distinguish between the two bails like so?

I don't envy the umpires in this case to be fair. This is one of the most technically complex decisions I've seen.

 

[GotSpin]

Is there a limit to the number of subs allowed?

 

[loterry1994]

I think the umpire ruled it as the bails weren’t removed before smith hit the line not what butcher is saying with bairstow taking it off early because the bails were still on the groove. That’s why they kept going frame to frame and the picture of the bail on the other side

 

[WICFan]

But legit, why are there 14 Under 18 players fielding for England?

Wood and Anderson having a nap before the new ball is due.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh I see what Butcher is talking about now - he's saying that because Bairstow broke the off stump early, it's the leg bail which now determines the decision. Is that how the law works? That's insanely, unbelievably technical if so

If one bail is off, it shall be sufficient for the purpose of breaking the wicket to remove the remaining bail or to strike or pull any of the three stumps out of the ground, in any of the ways stated in 29.2.

He was assuming that one bail was off so you have to remove the second bail. Although the laws state that the bail has to be completely off to be considered off, which it wasn't, so there is still a gray area there.

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

Jonny disturbed the left hand bail before he had the ball but it wasn't dislodged so it doesn't matter. Just a lousy decision. Probably the worst third umpiring since Nigel Llong's "there's a clear hotspot but it could be anything" ruining the first day night Test.

 

[Ashes81]

He's good but this is a borderline troll post. Averages ain't everything. I would put him in the top 20-30 to be generous. But there have been so many great players on way worse pitches and against better bowlers.

Mate, I'm English and no fan of Smith as such but he's a fantastic player with a fantastic record.

To say you'd only put him in the top 20 or 30 - well thats ridiculous

 

[91Jmay]

Oh I see what Butcher is talking about now - he's saying that because Bairstow broke the off stump early, it's the leg bail which now determines the decision. Is that how the law works? That's insanely, unbelievably technical if so

Yeah he kept saying "2nd spigot is still in groove" so that must be the law. I think it is out if I had to guess but with the doubt of Bairstow knocking it out and then the doubt of whether it was dislodged before he grounded bat you can't give it out. Also the fact it is a sub fielder will sub-consciously play on his mind I reckon, because that decision will be replayed 5000 times forever more if you give it out whereas it might not even be remember by end of Test.

 

[Daemon]

I think because the off bail was broken early, it's no longer "live" - only the leg bail counts and it definitely didn't fall until after Smith was already in. But I wasn't aware you could distinguish between the two bails like so?

I don't envy the umpires in this case to be fair. This is one of the most technically complex decisions I've seen.

Right, I see what he meant now. Although for the one bail to be off (i.e. the one Bairstow knocked off), it would need to be completely dislodged I think


29.2.2 The disturbance of a bail, whether temporary or not, shall not constitute its complete removal from the top of the stumps, but if a bail in falling lodges between two of the stumps this shall be regarded as complete removal.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

weird hill to die on

He doesn't even have a 4th innings century. Lol at being the 2nd best bat.