*Official* Fifth Test at the SCG

[Spark]

I do agree with this. The players you've mentioned there are either lacking in form or are not ready for Test cricket and their development will be hindered rather than accelerated by playing Test cricket before they're ready.

Hauritz should clearly be the spinner in the Aussie side, if we're judging on playing talent alone.

nah let's just pick every young player under the sun eh

 

[heathrf1974]

How can you criticise the selections of Smith and Hughes, yet in the same post argue that Shield performances should be used as selection criteria and that Nathan Hauritz should be the side's spinner?

These two links to Sheffield Shields tables may help explain my post.

Cricket Records | Sheffield Shield, 2010/11 | Records | Most wickets | ESPN Cricinfo

Cricket Records | Sheffield Shield, 2010/11 | Records | Most runs | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Woodster]

nah let's just pick every young player under the sun eh

Yes alright, why not. Get them all in.

 

[Spark]

Yes alright, why not. Get them all in.

i'm sure you'll love that

 

[heathrf1974]

I do agree with this. The players you've mentioned there are either lacking in form or are not ready for Test cricket and their development will be hindered rather than accelerated by playing Test cricket before they're ready.

Hauritz should clearly be the spinner in the Aussie side, if we're judging on playing talent alone.

Thanks. I believe Hughes, Beer and Smith are just not ready, however, they shouldn't be written off. Let them develop their skills and consistency in shield cricket and overseas tours with Australia A if they are deemed good enough to make that team.

 

[Spark]

Thanks. I believe Hughes, Beer and Smith are just not ready, however, they shouldn't be written off. Let them develop their skills and consistency in shield cricket and overseas tours with Australia A if they are deemed good enough to make that team.

This.

 

[Furball]

Hauritz has been decent in the Sheffield Season, has 19 wickets at 26.78, more wickets than any other spinner I think, without taking his batting form into account.

Was more in reference to Hauritz's Shield record when he was initially selected. Because he sure as hell wasn't picked on the basis of Shield form.

 

[Woodster]

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of players being picked when not necessarily in great domestic form, just a selectors hunch, or selecting a particular type of player for the game/series.

In the case of picking young players trying to forge a career at Test level, I find it extremely unfair that they get picked when they have no form or confidence behind them. Not only are they playing potentially out of their depth, but they're doing so when they are not confident and things are not coming easily to them. They may be questioning their place ino the State side, so who knows how they're feeling about their Test place.

 

[Furball]

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of players being picked when not necessarily in great domestic form, just a selectors hunch, or selecting a particular type of player for the game/series.

In the case of picking young players trying to forge a career at Test level, I find it extremely unfair that they get picked when they have no form or confidence behind them. Not only are they playing potentially out of their depth, but they're doing so when they are not confident and things are not coming easily to them. They may be questioning their place ino the State side, so who knows how they're feeling about their Test place.

Philip Hughes averages 55 for New South Wales and I'm pretty sure Steven Smith averages very close to 50 in Shield cricket. You can't bag those 2 selections then say "pick on their Shield records" when they've been 2 of the better batsmen in Shield cricket in recent years.

 

[Prince EWS]

Philip Hughes averages 55 for New South Wales and I'm pretty sure Steven Smith averages very close to 50 in Shield cricket. You can't bag those 2 selections then say "pick on their Shield records" when they've been 2 of the better batsmen in Shield cricket in recent years.

I think his point was that they were both in terrible Shield form this season when they were picked for the Ashes. They obviously have good overall records but it probably wasn't an ideal time to select them.

Picking a good young player in poor recent domestic form can be just as big a mistake as picking an average player just because his recent form is good. Unfortunately Australia didn't actually have any other options with that opening slot at the time (the only in-form openers who weren't injured are not Test standard IMO, unless you count Khawaja as an opener) but I thought picking Smith was a bit of a mistake at the time and I still do.

 

[Jacknife]

Philip Hughes averages 55 for New South Wales and I'm pretty sure Steven Smith averages very close to 50 in Shield cricket. You can't bag those 2 selections then say "pick on their Shield records" when they've been 2 of the better batsmen in Shield cricket in recent years.

Smiths' average is 42 and tbh I can only see it going down , after he had that good start.

 

[Prince EWS]

Smiths' average is 42 and tbh I can only see it going down , after he had that good start.

He said in Shield cricket - his First Class average includes his Tests and a couple of games for Australia A.

Smith has 1174 runs @ 51.04 in Shield cricket for NSW.

 

[Tom 1972]

Sorry, but Smith has a very ordinary technique IMHO and hacked plenty of his runs in the second dig. Come back and play Tests as a batter after 2015... Or learn to turn the ball and bat at #8 as your technique suggests you belong.

 

[King Pietersen]

I think Steve Smith could have a Paul Collingwood-esque impact on Australian cricket. Paul Collingwood never had a technique you'd expect to hold up at the highest level and didn't really put up huge numbers in County Cricket, but the selectors saw something in him as a personality. I think Steve Smith has the same qualities, the grittyness of his innings in the 2nd dig suggests to me that he has the mental strength to succeed at Test level. The comparison doesn't stop at the grittyness of their batting, or their personalities though. Smith is also an exceptional fielder in all areas of the field, and is capable of bowling some more than handy overs, and I think has the potential to be a more than decent leggie. It's going to take some hard work, but I reckon he could become a valuable member of the side, just needs to be given a chance.

 

[Furball]

Sorry, but Smith has a very ordinary technique IMHO and hacked plenty of his runs in the second dig. Come back and play Tests as a batter after 2015... Or learn to turn the ball and bat at #8 as your technique suggests you belong.

Technique isn't everything.

 

[Furball]

I think his point was that they were both in terrible Shield form this season when they were picked for the Ashes. They obviously have good overall records but it probably wasn't an ideal time to select them.

Picking a good young player in poor recent domestic form can be just as big a mistake as picking an average player just because his recent form is good. Unfortunately Australia didn't actually have any other options with that opening slot at the time (the only in-form openers who weren't injured are not Test standard IMO, unless you count Khawaja as an opener) but I thought picking Smith was a bit of a mistake at the time and I still do.

Agreed, but as far as selection calls go picking Hughes and Smith on the basis of their Shield records isn't really any than the decision to continue picking Ponting and Hussey on the basis of their Test records. I know it's not quite comparing apples and apples in that Ponting and Hussey have much more cricket to base their selection on, but it's worth considering.

 

[Burgey]

Sorry, but Smith has a very ordinary technique IMHO and hacked plenty of his runs in the second dig. Come back and play Tests as a batter after 2015... Or learn to turn the ball and bat at #8 as your technique suggests you belong.

So did Steve Waugh when he debuted. I'm not saying Smith should have been picked, but you can't say someone won't make it based on how they are at 21.

Not always anyway.

 

[Woodster]

Philip Hughes averages 55 for New South Wales and I'm pretty sure Steven Smith averages very close to 50 in Shield cricket. You can't bag those 2 selections then say "pick on their Shield records" when they've been 2 of the better batsmen in Shield cricket in recent years.

Yes it's about current form mate, his record might stack up overall, but as PEWS said, his current form was awful. Just because his overall record is good doesn't mean he'll play with confidence when he can't buy a run in the current season. It was about form.

I don't think Smith is ready for Test cricket by a long distance.

 

[Mister Wright]

I think Steve Smith could have a Paul Collingwood-esque impact on Australian cricket. Paul Collingwood never had a technique you'd expect to hold up at the highest level and didn't really put up huge numbers in County Cricket, but the selectors saw something in him as a personality. I think Steve Smith has the same qualities, the grittyness of his innings in the 2nd dig suggests to me that he has the mental strength to succeed at Test level. The comparison doesn't stop at the grittyness of their batting, or their personalities though. Smith is also an exceptional fielder in all areas of the field, and is capable of bowling some more than handy overs, and I think has the potential to be a more than decent leggie. It's going to take some hard work, but I reckon he could become a valuable member of the side, just needs to be given a chance.

At least Collingwood looked like a batsman and not a lower order hack.

 

[heathrf1974]

There has been some interesting discussions regarding recent test selections.

I think for the future test batting players that need to be considered are Mark Cosgrove, Callum Ferguson, Shaun Marsh, Cameron White (leadership) and Andrew McDonald (allrounder). Usman Khawaja and Shane Watson are certainties for me. Ponting and Hussey should be picked and form monitored over the next 12 months. Clarke should be picked if he can lift his game in the ODIs and maybe some first class games.

For test wicketkeeping even though Haddin is playing well with the bat, I think Tim Paine is breathing downing his neck and may replace him over the next 12m months. Although Haddin is a better batsman at the moment, Paine is a superior gloveman, with a good batting record with some leadership potential.

Bowling I find a bit trickier. I think we should stick with Johnson, Siddle and Harris (when fit). Johnson is erratic but he can get wickets. He needs his own bowling coach to lift his bowling arm and keep him on track. Siddle has heart which is good for team morale, but needs to get some movement with the ball. Harris could be a real find when fully fit. Hilfenhaus maybe finished as a test bowler, he just doesn't get enough wickets. Bollinger should be selected. Hauritz should be the spinner, with other spinners monitored in first class cricket and maybe the most promising selected for ODIs after the world cup. Other quicks I'm not too sure about, any suggestions?