**Official** English Football Season 2024/25

[Skipper Pup]

^ copium

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Most of the same squad that downed tools for ETH... I would take the United squad that ended the '22 season (that ETH inherited) over this one.
McTominay, Sancho, Varane, Sabitzer, Fred, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Bailly, De Gea, AWB, Elanga etc.



You reckon he'd be taking the United job if he had any sort of inkling City were keen on him? No chance imo. It seems Pep is keen to stick around anyway.

You're right we spoke to him but the release clause wasn't why we walked away. He apparently made transfer spending demands and wanted to rebuild the squad to suit his style of play, which FSG weren't keen to do.

I think the uncertainty surrounding Pep's future is why he would move to United now. I think a guaranteed job at a big club now is significantly better than a chance at the City job in the future.

He took over the Sporting job when they hadn't won the title in 20 years. Now they're the dominant team in Portugal. I imagine he sees this United job as a very similar challenge. Getting United back to the top of the Premier League is far more attractive than taking over from Pep imo.

One team has an ambitious new board that want to start a big project. The other is taking over from one of the best managers of all time, which can only be a cursed chalice.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Amorim also has a free hit this season. It'll be a massive achievement to get top four from this position, so he has a chance to really look at the squad in a competitive environment and highlight squad weaknesses early enough to have a good summer.

Realistically we need 2 centre backs, 2 left wingbacks, at least one CM, another Striker and to sell a lot of players before we're going to be anywhere near the level of the other top sides.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Most of the same squad that downed tools for ETH... I would take the United squad that ended the '22 season (that ETH inherited) over this one.
McTominay, Sancho, Varane, Sabitzer, Fred, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Bailly, De Gea, AWB, Elanga etc.

McTominay wasn't good enough
Sancho wasn't good enough
Varane was excellent but injury prone
Sabitzer was on loan
Fred wasn't good enough
Greenwood has charges of domestic abuse against him and rightfully has been moved on
Ronaldo was past it, and caused more problems than he solved
Bailly was decent but even more injury prone than Varane
De Gea was hard done by
AWB was not good enough, and wouldn't fit in Amorim's system
Elanga had his chance, and wasn't good enough

 

[Skipper Pup]

McTominay wasn't good enough
Sancho wasn't good enough
Varane was excellent but injury prone
Sabitzer was on loan
Fred wasn't good enough
Greenwood has charges of domestic abuse against him and rightfully has been moved on
Ronaldo was past it, and caused more problems than he solved
Bailly was decent but even more injury prone than Varane
De Gea was hard done by
AWB was not good enough, and wouldn't fit in Amorim's system
Elanga had his chance, and wasn't good enough

Now do the same with the current squad

McTominay, Elanga and Sancho are better than any of the options you currently have in their respective positions.

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think the uncertainty surrounding Pep's future is why he would move to United now. I think a guaranteed job at a big club now is significantly better than a chance at the City job in the future.

He took over the Sporting job when they hadn't won the title in 20 years. Now they're the dominant team in Portugal. I imagine he sees this United job as a very similar challenge. Getting United back to the top of the Premier League is far more attractive than taking over from Pep imo.

One team has an ambitious new board that want to start a big project. The other is taking over from one of the best managers of all time, which can only be a cursed chalice.

And I thought I had some bad takes

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Now do the same with the current squad

McTominay, Elanga and Sancho are better than any of the options you currently have in their respective positions.

This is mind-blowing

Elanga and McTominay have both done well since leaving United, and I hope they continue to do so. But they were never good enough to play for United and were rightfully sold. Sancho was a complete flop, and joins the list of Dortmund Attacking Midfielders who couldn't replicate their Bundisliga form in a United shirt.

 

[Skipper Pup]

This is mind-blowing

Elanga and McTominay have both done well since leaving United, and I hope they continue to do so. But they were never good enough to play for United and were rightfully sold. Sancho was a complete flop, and joins the list of Dortmund Attacking Midfielders who couldn't replicate their Bundisliga form in a United shirt.

Napoli are a better side than United and he walks into their starting XI. Based on this logic most of your current squad should be sold. That is the point I was making.

I'm also struggling to see how Hojlund being able to play up top and Ugarte being a ball winning midfielder make them 'perfectly suited' to the system Amorim will try to play. Are those not the roles they had with Ten Hag?

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Napoli are a better side than United, you're right, but they play a different way and in a very different league. When McTominay played his "best" football for United last season he would get up to into the box, score goals, and leave massive gaps between the lines. When he played in a double pivot he went missing. Yes, we also have many more players that still need selling too.

Again, different manager, different system, different roles. I don't see why this is so hard? Hojland, and the strikers that have come before him in recent times have lived off scraps in that position. United have had in Rashford, Garnacho, Greenwood, Martial, Mata etc. wide players that cut inside, rather than getting to the byline to cross. They've played under successive managers who prefer the Striker to be involved in the build up with a focus on goals from the inside forwards/inverted wingers. Ten Hag wanted his Fullbacks to invert rather than overlap.
Amorim's system by contrast has a big focus on getting the ball to the striker. Either by the 3 front players passing between them, the wing backs crossing the ball from wide, or the Centre backs passing direct into the channels. Holland is a similar player to Gyökeres, who has 41 goals in 42 appearances playing in that system.

Amorim plays with 2 CDMs. One has a focus on winning the ball (Ugarte), one has a focus on progressing the ball. Ten Hag wants his CDMs to progress the ball. That's why he chased so hard after de Jong. There are rumours that he never wanted Ugarte too, which would explain why he's hardly been used.

 

[andruid]

I'm glad the La Liga/Messi stranglehold has been broken. I thought it should have happened with Van Dijk in 2019 and again with Haaland in 2023.

No complaints from me that Rodri won it, absolutely deserved and about time a defensive player won it. We're about to see just how important he is to the City machine.

I for one am still on the Franck Ribery was robbed train.

 

[Skipper Pup]

Napoli are a better side than United, you're right, but they play a different way and in a very different league. When McTominay played his "best" football for United last season he would get up to into the box, score goals, and leave massive gaps between the lines. When he played in a double pivot he went missing. Yes, we also have many more players that still need selling too.

Again, different manager, different system, different roles. I don't see why this is so hard? Hojland, and the strikers that have come before him in recent times have lived off scraps in that position. United have had in Rashford, Garnacho, Greenwood, Martial, Mata etc. wide players that cut inside, rather than getting to the byline to cross. They've played under successive managers who prefer the Striker to be involved in the build up with a focus on goals from the inside forwards/inverted wingers. Ten Hag wanted his Fullbacks to invert rather than overlap.
Amorim's system by contrast has a big focus on getting the ball to the striker. Either by the 3 front players passing between them, the wing backs crossing the ball from wide, or the Centre backs passing direct into the channels. Holland is a similar player to Gyökeres, who has 41 goals in 42 appearances playing in that system.

Amorim plays with 2 CDMs. One has a focus on winning the ball (Ugarte), one has a focus on progressing the ball. Ten Hag wants his CDMs to progress the ball. That's why he chased so hard after de Jong. There are rumours that he never wanted Ugarte too, which would explain why he's hardly been used.

Appreciate the thoughtful response.

Who do you think will play the progressive passing role in the double pivot with Ugarte?

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Appreciate the thoughtful response.

Who do you think will play the progressive passing role in the double pivot with Ugarte?


View attachment 42217

I imagine Mainoo would do that role. I'm not sure whether the differences in that polygon are due to the capabilities of the player or the role he was being asked to do. Either way Mainoo has a lot of development left in him.

Other options might be Erikson, though his ability to play 90 mins each week at a top level is questionable. I quite like the idea of playing Bruno there too, but I don't know if it would work long term. Casimero played alongside Ugarte yesterday, and theoretically could do a job there short term. Neither Erikson not Casimero have long term futures at United though.

 

[Furball]

Amorim also has a free hit this season. It'll be a massive achievement to get top four from this position, so he has a chance to really look at the squad in a competitive environment and highlight squad weaknesses early enough to have a good summer.

That doesn't always work out in practice. If United get scudded by Liverpool, City and Arsenal over the course of the season then the 'oh it's a transition season' excuse can quickly turn into 'not sure if this manager has got it' which means he starts next season under pressure.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Maybe from the press, but I don't think the fans will feel like that. Ten Hag had big support right up until his sacking, and being beaten heavily by rivals is hardly a new thing.

I think the attitude will be "These are the same players who got beaten 7-0 by Liverpool last year, why should we expect they would be capable of doing better this year?"

He should start next season under pressure regardless of how this season goes.

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think the attitude will be "These are the same players who got beaten 7-0 by Liverpool last year, why should we expect they would be capable of doing better this year?"

Because as you said, it's a squad that's well suited to the new manager... If it's not then how many transfer windows are you giving him to rebuild with players that can implement his style of play?

It's remarkable that two weeks ago these players weren't good enough and the squad was the worst in the top 6, to suddenly now these players are good enough and it was just a coaching issue. In fact, these players are better than the ones you let go for not being good enough (McTominay, Elanga, Sancho etc) but there's still no expectation to do better..

I imagine Mainoo would do that role. I'm not sure whether the differences in that polygon are due to the capabilities of the player or the role he was being asked to do. Either way Mainoo has a lot of development left in him.

I think he was asked to be the progressive player in the double pivot by Southgate, cause it certainly wasn't Rice. We all saw how limited he was in that role during the Euros. We've seen what decent looks like since Angel Gomes has been given a run.

Agree he has a lot of potential still to realize, and I'm not one to judge anyone too much from a Southgate system, but progressive passing isn't Mainoo's game from what I've seen for both England and United. Your best player for that role is Casemiro, imo. Eriksen doesn't offer enough off the ball. Both have mobility and speed deficiencies but Casemiro still at least has the positional IQ to play there.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Because as you said, it's a squad that's well suited to the new manager... If it's not then how many transfer windows are you giving him to rebuild with players that can implement his style of play?

It's remarkable that two weeks ago these players weren't good enough and the squad was the worst in the top 6, to suddenly now these players are good enough and it was just a coaching issue. In fact, these players are better than the ones you let go for not being good enough (McTominay, Elanga, Sancho etc) but there's still no expectation to do better..

Being suited to a manager's style of play and being competitive at the business end of the Premier League are two very different things. It would be an incredible achievement to get United into the top 4 this season. Getting too 6th will probably be the best we can expect if he has a good season from here.

I think he was asked to be the progressive player in the double pivot by Southgate, cause it certainly wasn't Rice. We all saw how limited he was in that role during the Euros. We've seen what decent looks like since Angel Gomes has been given a run.

Agree he has a lot of potential still to realize, and I'm not one to judge anyone too much from a Southgate system, but progressive passing isn't Mainoo's game from what I've seen for both England and United. Your best player for that role is Casemiro, imo. Eriksen doesn't offer enough off the ball. Both have mobility and speed deficiencies but Casemiro still at least has the positional IQ to play there.

I don't think criticising Mainoo for his England performances in the Euros is at all fair. That England squad had a lot of problems tactically, which Mainoo was not part of.

Angel Gomes played as a Deep Lying Playmaker under Carsley, which is not a position Mainoo has played for United or will be asked to play under Amorim, who plays with a Segundo Volante. Angel Gomes incidentally, is another player who has left United in recent years for not being good enough.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Wonderful start Liverpool have it would be city vs pool thus year

 

[superkingdave]

How did everyone's FA cup first round go?

 

[Skipper Pup]

Angel Gomes incidentally, is another player who has left United in recent years for not being good enough.

Would take him at Liverpool in a heartbeat. Of course he's not good enough for United though.

 

[Boy_Blunder]

Performing well in France, and in a handful of meaningless international games against second tier opponents does not make someone a top Premier League talent