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*Official* English Football Season 2014-15
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I still think we'll finish top four because we've got so many players to come back and we surely must sign someone in January but right now is pretty grim and the most annoying thing is it was all so inevitable.If Marcuss thinks Arsenal are in trouble they really must be bad
Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
big club fans, go die.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
I well recall several people here predicting us to finish fifth that season haha.
Regarding Wenger there is the tendency to confuse the fact that Wenger has obviously done a very good job overall for Arsenal with whether he has done a good job in the last few years (and indeed whether he is likely to continue doing a good job in the future).
It's not even that the game constantly evolves and Wenger seemingly refuses to, although this is probably true. It's that at some point circa 7-8 years ago Wenger suddenly changed his philosophy and seems unwilling to change it now. I mean this is the guy who signed Vieira and Petit as his first midfield pairing. Yet he won't even sign one of those sort of players now when the team are crying out for them, ditto centre halves, ditto (until recently maybe) strikers. As Uppercut says he has some bizarre blind spots and is the most tactically rigid manager in the Premiership that I can think of off the top of my head.
I'm not too up to date with who may be speculated about replacing Wenger but I personally find it a bit hard to believe that there aren't managers out there who would be interested who would be more likely to win Arsenal a title than 2014 Wenger. But for his mistakes they would probably have won a title since 2004. We are told they have the resources.
Just because a manager has done a good job so far isn't nexessarily reason enough to keep them. See Southampton and Nigel Adkins, and I think that at the time, that was a more borderline decision than this would be (assuming Wenger would be replaced well, which obviously is not a given).
Cabinet96
Hall of Fame Member
Ftr, every time I have an Arsenal related meltdown it's not at the thought of finishing 3rd or 4th. and reaching the CL knockout stages, it's at the thought of not achieving that. At the moment we are in a position where we should be able to achieve it this season, but so far the only reason why is because Liverpool, United, Tottenham, Everton and Galatasary have all been awful. It's not at all unlikely that United and Liverpool (and even Tottenham and Everton for that matter) will get a lot better as the season progresses.
That being said, it doesn't really irk me that despite vast improvements to the squad in the last 2-3 years, we haven't really seen an increase in performance. Would be genuinely interested to know how many people (Arsenal fans or neutrals) think the sides in the Fabregas era were significantly better than the one of the last year or so, because, realistically, they got a lot closer to competing for the high honours, on both a national and international scale.
That being said, it doesn't really irk me that despite vast improvements to the squad in the last 2-3 years, we haven't really seen an increase in performance. Would be genuinely interested to know how many people (Arsenal fans or neutrals) think the sides in the Fabregas era were significantly better than the one of the last year or so, because, realistically, they got a lot closer to competing for the high honours, on both a national and international scale.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Man for man the first choice XI is better now than at any other point since the invincibles days. I think this is probably beyond dispute.
Sadly though the current squad suffers from the same weakness(es) as those that have gone before it - lack of strength in depth in key positions/roles.
Also, Wenger seemed to get the absolute best out of the key players who made up the squads of the past, for a time at least, and at the moment he's not really managed to get that out of some of the supposedly better players on the books at the moment. Ozil being played out of position and not really knowing what to do with Wilshere being notable examples.
Sadly though the current squad suffers from the same weakness(es) as those that have gone before it - lack of strength in depth in key positions/roles.
Also, Wenger seemed to get the absolute best out of the key players who made up the squads of the past, for a time at least, and at the moment he's not really managed to get that out of some of the supposedly better players on the books at the moment. Ozil being played out of position and not really knowing what to do with Wilshere being notable examples.
Cabinet96
Hall of Fame Member
It's only really at CB where we lack depth though. Arteta and Flamini are past it but that's still two decent options for one position. And I'm pretty sure back then was the days of playing any old joker at the back with Almunia in goal, so it's not like so it's not like we're worse of there now than we were.
I guess my general point is that if the team is stronger but we're not doing better that's pretty damning on the management of the club. We just don't do well against other sides that have similar, or in some cases marginally worse, squads than we do. Even looking beyond the drubbings against tittle challenging sides, take Wenger's record against Martinez's Everton. They've played two games at Godison, and two at the Emirates, yet despite Arsenal being much richer, and having stronger squads, it's 2 draws, and 1 win each, with an aggregate score of 7-7. In other words, their performances against each other have been completely equal. Arsenal are so rigid in their tactical approach, that you don't even need to have equal or better players to excel against them if you properly know what you're doing.
I've said before that I probably don't think Wenger is the best man for the job anymore. The issue is I don't know who is that would be available, and while the possibility of a new manager taking us to 10th is stupid, it'd feel **** letting Wenger go if it didn't lead to a significant improvement.
I guess my general point is that if the team is stronger but we're not doing better that's pretty damning on the management of the club. We just don't do well against other sides that have similar, or in some cases marginally worse, squads than we do. Even looking beyond the drubbings against tittle challenging sides, take Wenger's record against Martinez's Everton. They've played two games at Godison, and two at the Emirates, yet despite Arsenal being much richer, and having stronger squads, it's 2 draws, and 1 win each, with an aggregate score of 7-7. In other words, their performances against each other have been completely equal. Arsenal are so rigid in their tactical approach, that you don't even need to have equal or better players to excel against them if you properly know what you're doing.
I've said before that I probably don't think Wenger is the best man for the job anymore. The issue is I don't know who is that would be available, and while the possibility of a new manager taking us to 10th is stupid, it'd feel **** letting Wenger go if it didn't lead to a significant improvement.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Tbh by strength "in depth" I was referring to players in the starting XI as well. I didn't mean to refer to just reserve players and so on. But anyway, yeah, CB and DM are probably the only positions that there's any real crisis over. But you could probably pick two positions and say that about any team Arsenal from the last few years. There was that season when all the forwards got injured, and then that season when all of the defence got injured and so on and so on...
Also, not picking up points against lesser teams is a concern, for sure. But it's important to note that Arsenal's squad improvements have not occured in a vacuum. Arsenal may have got better on paper, but so have the teams around them.
Also, not picking up points against lesser teams is a concern, for sure. But it's important to note that Arsenal's squad improvements have not occured in a vacuum. Arsenal may have got better on paper, but so have the teams around them.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Just to cheer you gooners up
How Arsenal missed out on a teenage Lionel Messi - after refusing to buy his family a flat in London - Telegraph
How Arsenal missed out on a teenage Lionel Messi - after refusing to buy his family a flat in London - Telegraph
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Although I'm aware of Arsenal fans' longstanding gripes with Wenger I don't think their current position or play is dire enough to be talking about sacking the guy mid season, especially considering the injuries. Look around you, it could be worse.
The reality Arsenal fans (and fans not of the following) have to accept is that there are 3 behemoths in the league in City, United and Chelsea that will stand in their way. This is no longer 95-05, those 3 aside there is Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and now Southampton pushing hard as well.
It may take a change of manager, and the overhaul with it, to bring them up to that legit title challenging level (they're not Everton in terms of resources) but the way a lot of their fans talk of the title seems a bit deluded. It can happen but let's not pretend it won't take an almighty season with the current setup.
The obvious CB and DM arguments aside they need a world class forward - and I don't think of Sanchez as a forward despite how brilliant he is. Scholes made a great comment after the Chelsea-Liverpool game that for him a great side is largely so because of its forwards and it makes everybody else look good when they're firing. As a Liverpool fan I appreciate this more this season.
Ultimately, I just don't think the ruckus around Wenger will help at all this season and in fact will hurt them. Something tells me the Arsenal higher ups are running out of patience anyway.
The reality Arsenal fans (and fans not of the following) have to accept is that there are 3 behemoths in the league in City, United and Chelsea that will stand in their way. This is no longer 95-05, those 3 aside there is Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and now Southampton pushing hard as well.
It may take a change of manager, and the overhaul with it, to bring them up to that legit title challenging level (they're not Everton in terms of resources) but the way a lot of their fans talk of the title seems a bit deluded. It can happen but let's not pretend it won't take an almighty season with the current setup.
The obvious CB and DM arguments aside they need a world class forward - and I don't think of Sanchez as a forward despite how brilliant he is. Scholes made a great comment after the Chelsea-Liverpool game that for him a great side is largely so because of its forwards and it makes everybody else look good when they're firing. As a Liverpool fan I appreciate this more this season.
Ultimately, I just don't think the ruckus around Wenger will help at all this season and in fact will hurt them. Something tells me the Arsenal higher ups are running out of patience anyway.
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Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Because the work permit wouldn't have been an issue at all? Non-starter.