*Official* English Football Season 2013-14

[Eds]

It's nothing more than a plea for English football not to lose its identity. It reads more like an anti-diving speech than anything.

I think I'd quite like to lose the "good characters, brave, hard tacklers" identity tbh.

Decent Gary Neville article on this sort of thing knocking about though.

 

[Uppercut]

You're definitely in the minority there. If there's one thing British football fans love it's moaning about the decline in football's physicality.

I think world football might be going that way anyway. Bayern had Mandzukic up front last season, he's pretty much a specialist ball of energy whose job is to run around a lot.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I still remember how ITV got really upset when Brazil went out, and thus didn't appear in the Semi-final, last time round. I remember them whinging about Brazil not being in it more than the match itself.

Haha tbf that was daylight robbery by Netherlands.

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, that's essentially how I feel about it as well. I'd rather England did well than poorly, but there's just not the same sense of association I get when following Arsenal. I'm not sure if this would make me one of the "worst fans" though, seems odd to me that someone should make judgments about how much someone else ought to enjoy something.

It was a joke, but I do find it a bit strange. I think perhaps the club culture in England has perverted the atmosphere. Reading around websites, you get the impression that - as an example - Liverpool fans want United players, or vice versa, in the national team to do poorly just to give them a bollocking. There's also an element of tall poppy syndrome in the extreme, amongst the English, that I haven't experienced from fans of any other country. It's like pulling teeth for some to admit that players like Rio, Cole, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney, etc have been world class players and yet they'll laud the likes of Michu, Modric, or some other good foreign players to the heavens.

IMO that should never be the case. To give an example, in my country we have basically 2 huge clubs that win the title most years (a la Celtic-Rangers of years by) but when it comes to the national team, or even the clubs playing in intercontinental tournaments, everybody gets behind them. Some of my favourite Iranian players are from the rival club.

Also why does it really matter about the character of a football player? 90% of them are idiots and/or conceited, which is enough in real life for many of us to dislike someone. Ultimately, they kick a ball around well.

It's the tribalism, clubs or country, that bring people together. If Arsenal sold all their players and bought a whole different squad, you'd still support the club wouldn't you? So I'd say it's the club or country that you support, not as much the players. It's probably stupid, but I still find that kind of allegiance endearing. So at the World Cup, which for me is on a much higher pedestal than club competitions, I get even more in the spirit...every kick misplaced I want to tear my hair out and every good pass gets a round of applause. I guess it shows just how different we view it, I find it impossible to not be anything but excited by it...even if we played the ****test football at the tournament.

 

[Pothas]

It was a joke, but I do find it a bit strange. I think perhaps the club culture in England has perverted the atmosphere. Reading around websites, you get the impression that - as an example - Liverpool fans want United players, or vice versa, in the national team to do poorly just to give them a bollocking. There's also an element of tall poppy syndrome in the extreme, amongst the English, that I haven't experienced from fans of any other country. It's like pulling teeth for some to admit that players like Rio, Cole, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney, etc have been world class players and yet they'll laud the likes of Michu, Modric, or some other good foreign players to the heavens.

This may be true of a small section of English football fans (which may be more prominent on here and elsewhere) but I think that the vast majority are not like this it all. Maybe it has changed in the last few years but people used to always go on about all our 'world class' players. Remember in 2010 Alan Shearer saying how England had better players than Germany, and I think that a majority of England fans would have gone along with that.

Agree with your general point about being a fan, that it is not dependent on the particular players at the time, I just don't feel that way about England. Simple as that really.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, same here. I simply don't feel that way about England.

I've never had a problem admitting members of the England team are good, mind you, regardless of whether I like them or not. Ikki may be right in that 90% of footballers may be idiots or conceited, but there's a difference between those which are understated and those which are overtly dire. It might be just me, but I have difficulty in separating out Terry the person from Terry the player, and since that's the case I'd always struggle to get behind him.

 

[grecian]

No doubt that the England football Team is still massively over-rated by huge swathes of the English Public, and almost all of the Press.

Anyway on the expectation of winning in Brazil, it's particularly ridiculous. I mean no European team has won in the Americas, I really don't think we'll be the team to beat that stat.

TBH Most of us will be happy when we get there, and we'll be hoping for the best, but it can't be denied it's become a depressing experience, us at major Tournaments, I kind of blame the internet though, and the proliferation of radio phone-ins. The fact is players have always been ****s, but now we know about it more, hard for it not to affect your perceptions.

I mean the Tabloid press was almost certainly more rabid and xenophobic in the eighties and nineties, but if you didn't buy the 'papers, you just could ignore it.

Hard to ignore anything now, because it's all in your face.

It's the same as a lot of things though, I mean I'm a sad bloke in my 40s, I really shouldn't have an opinion on Miley Cyrus' twerking, in fact I shouldn't even know who Cyrus is, or what twerking is. Yet I do, and quite frankly I feel diminished for that.

 

[Furball]

Who was it that pre England v Germany in 2010 claimed that there were very few/no Germany players that would get in the England side?

The best thing about the media ignorance of Germany 4 years ago was picking up Özil for about £4m my World Cup fantasy side.

 

[Uppercut]

Who was it that pre England v Germany in 2010 claimed that there were very few/no Germany players that would get in the England side?

I'm pretty sure all of them agreed. I imagine Scaly has something to say about everyone preferring the "experienced" and "proven" Gerrard and Lampard over the younger Khedira, Ozil and Schweinsteiger.

 

[sledger]

Who was it that pre England v Germany in 2010 claimed that there were very few/no Germany players that would get in the England side?

The best thing about the media ignorance of Germany 4 years ago was picking up Özil for about £4m my World Cup fantasy side.

I think that may have been Shearer as well, no? The dumbest thing about that was that someone with next to no contextual knowledge could see that was a terrible call. You'd only have to had watched one or two of Germany's games from earlier in that very tournament to have been able to see that they were obviously light years ahead of England.

In any case, when high profile 'expert' pundits are exposing the masses to self-evidently false views like this, there's no wonder there's always so much discontent with the state of the England team. I find it hard to believe the dearth of knowledge about overseas players is as bad as this amongst active coaches at Premiership clubs, but the lack of appreciation for anything that happens abroad amongst people in the media is absolutely shocking.

I'm not sure why the BBC even bother having 'analysts' any more, Sky have been doing it better pretty much since they came on the scene. Hansen's little analysis segments may have been novel and interesting to begin with, but these days he, and the rest of the clowns they get on the BBC, are amongst the worst at it. I can't for the life of me recall the last time I actually thought "hmmm yes, that's quite an astute observation" whilst watching MOTD. I swear all they do on there is make asinine points which are either extremely obvious or just blatantly wrong.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I feel a bit daft.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I feel a bit daft.

Wow haha. The only ones you can't really excuse are the Schweinsteiger amd Khedira ones IMO. The rest, while largely off the mark, were the right call at the time.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'm pretty sure all of them agreed. I imagine Scaly has something to say about everyone preferring the "experienced" and "proven" Gerrard and Lampard over the younger Khedira, Ozil and Schweinsteiger.

Yea, you're either good or you're not. Experience isn't going to make someone run faster, kick more accurately, control the ball better.

 

[GIMH]

Yea, you're either good or you're not. Experience isn't going to make someone run faster, kick more accurately, control the ball better.

Of course it is.

 

[sledger]

No, Beevs is right. Messi just woke up one day and realised he was the best player in the world. No previous footballing experience necessary.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Oh look marc multis.

 

[sledger]

Nah, come off it. I'm obviously being facetious, but to suggest one's previous experiences are not capable of having any bearing on their ability to do something in the present is just plain wrong. Especially in the context you mention.

 

[Uppercut]

Haha yeah but he clearly just means it's not important independent of ability.

 

[sledger]

I dunno, from what he said, it's hard to infer that.

Experience isn't going to make someone run faster, kick more accurately, control the ball better.

But then again I gather this sort of thing has been brought up before, so perhaps there is some greater elaboration elsewhere that I haven't read.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah I know it's really badly phrased but he obviously doesn't mean exactly what he said.