-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
*Official* English Football Season 2010-11
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Done a bit of research, it isn't just wiki who claim he was on the left though. Contemporary articles from both The Times and The Telegraph say so.
"Gerrard's repositioning has meant Scholes dropping to the left" (Gerrard's heart in the right place - Telegraph).
"Even if Euro 2004 was a poor tournament for him out on the left wing" (Retirement of Scholes adds to England woe | Football - Times Online)
Those are just the first couple of results in Google News, so I don't think his point of view is one entirely without substance.
Last edited:
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
We played a diamond in that tournament, and lacked width. He wasn't playing out wide.
Regardless, grecian's point stands. Gerrard has been shunted all over the midfield and then gets grief for not performing to his club standard. Suppose he's being 'wasted'? Course not. Scholes wasn't the best player going into that tournament and the midfield needed to be built around Gerrard and Lampard at that point. Sure, they don't mix so well but they'd hardly played together at that point and Gerrard had done well more than Scholes - internationally and domestically - in the prior twelve months, as had Lampard.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but so are facts. Once again, England did not waste Scholes.
Regardless, grecian's point stands. Gerrard has been shunted all over the midfield and then gets grief for not performing to his club standard. Suppose he's being 'wasted'? Course not. Scholes wasn't the best player going into that tournament and the midfield needed to be built around Gerrard and Lampard at that point. Sure, they don't mix so well but they'd hardly played together at that point and Gerrard had done well more than Scholes - internationally and domestically - in the prior twelve months, as had Lampard.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but so are facts. Once again, England did not waste Scholes.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
They used a diamond in the qualifiers, and scrapped it in the tournament itself.
Rooney invaluable to Eriksson after diamond appeal falls flat | Football - Times Online
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-in-move-to-widen-england-options-731071.html
Last edited:
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
First article isn't working.
Second one pre-dates the tournament and suggests he was still considering a diamond for the tournament.
Look, the thing is, even if Scholes was played as a left winger (which he wasn't) in Euro 04, he simply wasn't one of the two best central midfielders in the country at the time. He wasn't the best attacking midfielder and the alternatives were not liable for a yellow card every third tackle.
Scholes was a hugely important player for England for a long time but he retired once he had competition. If that's England wasting him, then I don't know what to say.
Second one pre-dates the tournament and suggests he was still considering a diamond for the tournament.
Look, the thing is, even if Scholes was played as a left winger (which he wasn't) in Euro 04, he simply wasn't one of the two best central midfielders in the country at the time. He wasn't the best attacking midfielder and the alternatives were not liable for a yellow card every third tackle.
Scholes was a hugely important player for England for a long time but he retired once he had competition. If that's England wasting him, then I don't know what to say.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Definitely working for me. Try again, if not have another one: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article446956.ece
Scholes was played on the left, and I'd vehemently disagree that he wasn't one of the best central midfielders in the country at the time. 02/03 and 03/04 were two of his best seasons of his entire career. A career that saw Zidane call him the best midfielder of his generation, Xavi recently call him the best midfielder of the last 20 years, etc etc. So a player that good in some of the best club form of his life was probably one of the best two midfielders in the country at the time, IMO.
Last edited:
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
I'm getting a 404 error mate.
As for the best midfielders, no way was Scholes as good as Gerrard & Lampard that season. And just to show that I can quote wiki too, here is the PFA team of the year:
PFA Team of the Year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for the best midfielders, no way was Scholes as good as Gerrard & Lampard that season. And just to show that I can quote wiki too, here is the PFA team of the year:
PFA Team of the Year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Who's citing Wikipedia now? 
I don't think the PFA team of the year means a great deal tbh. Everyone always seems to disagree with the PFA awards when it's United players winning it or getting in the teams, anyway. Lampard was arguably better than Scholes in 03/04, Gerrard, no way. IMO.
I don't think the PFA team of the year means a great deal tbh. Everyone always seems to disagree with the PFA awards when it's United players winning it or getting in the teams, anyway. Lampard was arguably better than Scholes in 03/04, Gerrard, no way. IMO.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Gerrard no way? Are you kidding?Who's citing Wikipedia now?
I don't think the PFA team of the year means a great deal tbh. Everyone always seems to disagree with the PFA awards when it's United players winning it or getting in the teams, anyway. Lampard was arguably better than Scholes in 03/04, Gerrard, no way. IMO.
03-04 was arguably Gerrard's magnus opus, 05 CL Final aside perhaps. He single-handedly dragged Liverpool to 4th that season. They were utter turd and he led them amazingly. The old 'one man team' adage has never been more appropriate.
Of course the PFA awards aren't the be-all, end-all but at the same time I would argue they mean as much if not more than what Zidane and Xavi have to say.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
It's not just Zidane and Xavi, though I would argue that what they have to say does count for something. There's a whole host of them from various people on Wikiquote, all sourced, including managers like Lippi and Wenger who know a thing or two about building a side. Indeed Lippi inferred that he would build a side around Scholes, something England conspicuously failed to do.
As for Gerrard, I genuinely don’t recall him being particularly great at any point that season. Then again I’ve never really got his supposed brilliance anyway. Sure, he can be occasionally inspirational (2005 CL Final the obvious case in point, and various other big games) but I can’t recall a consistent spell at any point in his career really where he hasn’t mixed up inspirational performances with absolute garbage. Perhaps it sticks out more noticeably to a United fan because his ratio of good to poor performances against us is shockingly poor.
As for Gerrard, I genuinely don’t recall him being particularly great at any point that season. Then again I’ve never really got his supposed brilliance anyway. Sure, he can be occasionally inspirational (2005 CL Final the obvious case in point, and various other big games) but I can’t recall a consistent spell at any point in his career really where he hasn’t mixed up inspirational performances with absolute garbage. Perhaps it sticks out more noticeably to a United fan because his ratio of good to poor performances against us is shockingly poor.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Gerrard made his reputation in 03-04. He didn't start the season as Liverpool captain, but he ended it with the armband. He wasn't necessarily a key player for England before that season (was a regular though) but had captained his country by the end of the season. It was the summer of 04 when Abramovich's dollars really went after him. And as I said, he dragged Liverpool to 4th that season. They really were poor, but he was immense.
FTR, Gerrard is probably the most underrated player in this thread as I constantly read how he's ****e. **** me, I'm someone who deals with him being overrated 90% of the time but I can't believe the way some of the guys round here regard him. Very few English midfielders in recent times have been his equal, IMO - ironically enough, Scholes probably one of the few that does stand up.
FTR, Gerrard is probably the most underrated player in this thread as I constantly read how he's ****e. **** me, I'm someone who deals with him being overrated 90% of the time but I can't believe the way some of the guys round here regard him. Very few English midfielders in recent times have been his equal, IMO - ironically enough, Scholes probably one of the few that does stand up.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
To some extent I agree with that because I do think Gerrard at his best is potentially world class. I just don't think he plays to that potential anywhere near often enough. Ironically the one exception I would have said to that would probably be the 08/09 season where he was consistently brilliant, as opposed to 03/04. I think one of the biggest reasons that they nearly won it that season and haven't come close in any other season since 01/02 was that Gerrard actually performed consistently.
As for Chelsea in the summer of 04, there was speculation, but the figure being bandied around for his value was "only" £20m. Sure, that's quite a lot of money, but perceived world class 24 (I think) year olds generally go for more than that, especially when the club involved is Chelsea who at the time were spending ridiculous money and were involved in some very over inflated prices. Only a year later, and after telling Liverpool that he wanted to leave, the price being talked about was £30m plus. This is after he’s a year older, and wanting out, which in theory should drive a price down. It’d suggest he was more impressive in 04/05 than 03/04.
As for Chelsea in the summer of 04, there was speculation, but the figure being bandied around for his value was "only" £20m. Sure, that's quite a lot of money, but perceived world class 24 (I think) year olds generally go for more than that, especially when the club involved is Chelsea who at the time were spending ridiculous money and were involved in some very over inflated prices. Only a year later, and after telling Liverpool that he wanted to leave, the price being talked about was £30m plus. This is after he’s a year older, and wanting out, which in theory should drive a price down. It’d suggest he was more impressive in 04/05 than 03/04.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
United were better. We were wasteful. Silva was bad, Tevez was selfish (no shock there) and I thought Dzeko was good but his first touch was a little lacking. Rooney and Nani's diving was insane and disgusting, but both scored superb goals. Fair play.
My heart hurts.
My heart hurts.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
How good is Vinny Komp though, wow. What a beast. The two best defenders in the league this season were on display with him and Vidic, and it showed. That tackle on Rooney from VK in the box was spectacular. Smalling looks a player as well. Confident, no hiccups. Like the look of him. More than Evans in any case.
vcs
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well, I didn't follow all the games that closely in that tournament as I didn't know enough about football at the time, so you could be right.
Nevertheless, the point stands that as central midfielders, Gerrard and Lampard have never been and will never be good enough to clean Scholes's boots. If the "Golden Generation" getting creamed by every half-decent midfield they encountered in the last decade isn't enough proof of that, I don't know what else to say.
I've watched a lot of Gerrard and Lampard at club and international level, and they just don't cut it when they have to run a midfield against top-quality opposition. They look good playing in front of the Essiens, Makeleles, Mascheranos and Alonsos at club level but England don't have midfield players of that calibre, sadly, apart from Scholes. Maybe "wasted" is the wrong term and it was his own fault he chose to quit too early, but England could never really get the best out of him, and that's a shame, which was my original point.
