*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[Uppercut]

Doubt you would, if you're in the box and are more interested in flicking against a defender's hand instead of shooting/laying off properly you'll look like a prat when you miss and the ball rolls to the keeper.

And? Just like you look like a prat when you take a shot and miss and the ball rolls wide.

It would be so, soo easy to hit someone's arms and win a penalty. The whole art of defending would have to change completely.

 

[Matteh]

And? Just like you look like a prat when you take a shot and miss and the ball rolls wide.

It would be so, soo easy to hit someone's arms and win a penalty. The whole art of defending would have to change completely.

The whole art of defending has changed massively in the last 10-15 years anyway to be fair.

 

[Ikki]

You'd get the situation where wingers would try to flick the ball up and hit the defender on the hand or arm to get a penalty.

IIRC, that's how Baggio got a penalty in 98 at the WC. Still, that kind of situation makes up such a small fraction as compared to the many penalty calls here in discussion. And those which you speak of would be the most obvious ball-to-hand cases around. Doesn't really justify keeping such a greyness to the law IMO.

 

[Uppercut]

IIRC, that's how Baggio got a penalty in 98 at the WC. Still, that kind of situation makes up such a small fraction as compared to the many penalty calls here in discussion. And those which you speak of would be the most obvious ball-to-hand cases around. Doesn't really justify keeping such a greyness to the law IMO.

There isn't any greyness to the law as far as I'm concerned. If you deliberately handle the ball, or raise your arms with the intention of blocking the ball (The John Terry Manoeuvre), it's a handball. Otherwise it's not.

The situations I speak of aren't that rare, they're just forgotten instantly because everyone knows they're not penalties. But the point is that the attacking team would deliberately try to hit defenders on the hands to win penalties- it's really very easily done- and the whole game would change dramatically, IMO for the worse.

FIFA should probably issue a directive on the subject of raising one's hands to protect one's face though. I remember a particular incident when United were playing Boro in the FA Cup and a crucial penalty was given against George Boateng for instinctively lifting his arms to block the ball from hitting his face. I personally didn't think it should have been given, but it would be nice if FIFA would clear that one up.

 

[Ikki]

Deliberateness implies intention which is being subjectively assessed; it is all grey, really.

And no, disagree. For every 1 of that kind of handball there's about 5 other handballs like the ones in discussion here. And again, flicking a ball into a player's hand is so obvious as a case of ball-to-hand that we're kidding ourselves if we buy that they'll really be contentious or a threat to a rule change. Seriously, who will spread their arms wide and then have a winger stop and flick it onto the person's hand. As long as their arms are down near their sides there should be no problem, even if a player flicks it up onto them.

 

[aussie]

Gibbs ready for England - Wenger

Reckon he is right. Bridge needs to watch it..

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Bridge has been superb this season. Gibbs over him is laughable.

 

[Uppercut]

Deliberateness implies intention which is being subjectively assessed; it is all grey, really.

And no, disagree. For every 1 of that kind of handball there's about 5 other handballs like the ones in discussion here. And again, flicking a ball into a player's hand is so obvious as a case of ball-to-hand that we're kidding ourselves if we buy that they'll really be contentious or a threat to a rule change. Seriously, who will spread their arms wide and then have a winger stop and flick it onto the person's hand. As long as their arms are down near their sides there should be no problem, even if a player flicks it up onto them.

Matteh proposed a "if it hits the hand, it's handball" rule.

 

[sledger]

Gibbs ready for England - Wenger

Reckon he is right. Bridge needs to watch it..

Way too soon imo. He's played well this season, but putting him in the England side when he is hardly an Arsenal first team regular would be an unprecedented move

 

[Agent TBY]

Way too soon imo. He's played well this season, but putting him in the England side when he is hardly an Arsenal first team regular would be an unprecedented move

Walcott.

 

[sledger]

Walcott.

Exactly what I was thinking tbh.

 

[Matteh]

There isn't any greyness to the law as far as I'm concerned. If you deliberately handle the ball, or raise your arms with the intention of blocking the ball (The John Terry Manoeuvre), it's a handball. Otherwise it's not.

The situations I speak of aren't that rare, they're just forgotten instantly because everyone knows they're not penalties. But the point is that the attacking team would deliberately try to hit defenders on the hands to win penalties- it's really very easily done- and the whole game would change dramatically, IMO for the worse.

FIFA should probably issue a directive on the subject of raising one's hands to protect one's face though. I remember a particular incident when United were playing Boro in the FA Cup and a crucial penalty was given against George Boateng for instinctively lifting his arms to block the ball from hitting his face. I personally didn't think it should have been given, but it would be nice if FIFA would clear that one up.

The greyness occurs because it's subjective. Is it trying to block the ball or protect his face? Grey area, straight off.

Wingers flicking the ball onto the hand wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as the amount of wingers falling over their feet and wanting a penalty or those that roll around to get another player sent off. Simulation as a whole is a bigger threat to the game without a doubt.

 

[Uppercut]

So what you're saying is, something that is regularly happening at the moment is more of a threat to the game than something that never happens but would probably happen if a proposed law change which will never take place took place?

Indeed.

 

[Ikki]

Matteh proposed a "if it hits the hand, it's handball" rule.

I agree with him mostly bar two instances:

1) if the ball touches the hand which is perfectly in line with the body, as it would be if a player is protecting himself
2) And at worst if it hits the player's hands if they are close by their sides.

I think giving a handball for anything outside of these two instances is fair. That pretty much encapsulates every instance where a player has his arms unnaturally outward or high.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Marlon King gets 18 months

From the BBC.

The striking mediocity and all-round scumbag has been sentenced for ***ual assault and breaking a 20 year old female student's nose. WAC.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yea was just reading that on Yahoo.

What an absolute turd. Dunno if he can be sued or not, but hopefully he can and is bankrupted.

 

[Matteh]

So what you're saying is, something that is regularly happening at the moment is more of a threat to the game than something that never happens but would probably happen if a proposed law change which will never take place took place?

Indeed.

Why even bother counter-acting my original point because it's something that will never happen?

 

[fredfertang]

From the BBC.

The striking mediocity and all-round scumbag has been sentenced for ***ual assault and breaking a 20 year old female student's nose. WAC.

That's a ridiculous sentence - given he pleaded not guilty and wasted everyone's time that was worth at least 4 years

Just to annoy you gents even more he was no doubt on legal aid too

 

[The Sean]

Yea was just reading that on Yahoo.

What an absolute turd. Dunno if he can be sued or not, but hopefully he can and is bankrupted.

Indeed - **** of the highest order. Rejected by a woman he's groped without invitation, he tells her that she's not in his league because he's so rich innit, and then slugs her in the face.

Not as though he was squeaky clean up until then either - he's been in trouble most of his career. This was simply the crowning glory of his ****ness. I'd love for no club to ever touch him again, but sadly I'm sure he'll get picked up at some point.

 

[aussie]

Bridge has been superb this season. Gibbs over him is laughable.

Gibbs has looked excellent every time he has played though - he certainly does look international quality already. The thing is if we presume Cole is going to play all the games without getting injured, they both just battling for a back-up stop to probably get a 15-20 mins runs in the odd game. So for the first time years Bridge has to keep playing well or else Gibbs could sneak in.