*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[Lillian Thomson]

Having stuck with him through thick and thin Middlesbrough now sack Gareth Southgate with the team in 4th place, one point off the top of the table.

 

[The Sean]

Having stuck with him through thick and thin Middlesbrough now sack Gareth Southgate with the team in 4th place, one point off the top of the table.

"Falling attendances" is the reason being thrown around for his sacking today, there were less than 18,000 at the match last night.

Gordon Strachan currently favourite to take over.

 

[fredfertang]

...... methinks there will shortly be a managerial vacancy in the Royal County - would still prefer Curbs but could do worse than Southgate

........... just as long as it's not John Barnes

 

[GIMH]

Who gives a **** who's spent less out of Liverpool and United? You've both spent bucketloads, if we ever sign a player for £50k it's big money to us and I'm not even exaggerating. All of the top four have bought their way to success one way or another. I don't have a problem with it but bleating over whose spent more than the other is just dire.

 

[Loony BoB]

I don't care who spent more, personally - it's amusing on a statistical level but as you point out, there are others who have spent more and others who have spent less. I only cared to post it due to people going on about the details for so long without actually giving a full analysis, which was leading to misleading/inaccureate information being thrown around as if it were factual.

Having said that, I do wonder how people obtain the numbers for deals which are undisclosed.

 

[Ausage]

who gives a **** whose spent less out of liverpool and united? You've both spent bucketloads, if we ever sign a player for £50k it's big money to us and i'm not even exaggerating. All of the top four have bought their way to success one way or another. I don't have a problem with it but bleating over whose spent more than the other is just dire.

awta.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Who gives a **** about the big 4

awta

 

[The Sean]

Not English football, but a welcome respite nonetheless from the spend discussion:

Viana, a team from the Second Division of Maranhao in Brazil, had to win its final match by eleven goals to climb into the first division. With 9 minutes remaining they led 2-0, before scoring 9 goals in 9 minutes to win 11-0 and gain promotion.

A corruption probe has been launched, though looking at the footage here, I can't possibly imagine why...

YouTube - 11-0 Viana vs Chapadinha (9 GOALS IN 9 MINUTES!!) Division 2 Brazil CHEATING (16-10-2009)

 

[Scaly piscine]

Not English football, but a welcome respite nonetheless from the spend discussion:

Viana, a team from the Second Division of Maranhao in Brazil, had to win its final match by eleven goals to climb into the first division. With 9 minutes remaining they led 2-0, before scoring 9 goals in 9 minutes to win 11-0 and gain promotion.

A corruption probe has been launched, though looking at the footage here, I can't possibly imagine why...

YouTube - 11-0 Viana vs Chapadinha (9 GOALS IN 9 MINUTES!!) Division 2 Brazil CHEATING (16-10-2009)

That's just so ridiculously blatant. I mean how do they think they're seriously going to get away with that? Even if you were inclined to cheat and everything you'd surely still have a brain in your head.

 

[marc71178]

He also changed the culture of the club and restructured the youth system. Not denying he spent money and plenty of it, but to say that was the sole reason for United's success is to be rather selective in the credit giving stakes.

It was a major part of it though - before the one crop came through there was cash spent and I'm not so sure they'd have settled in quite so well if they weren't playing with the players they came into.

And yet Liverpool's Premier League spend before Rafa came in (92-04) was still in the same ballpark as United's - it's not as though Liverpool hadn't been spending money over the previous decade.

Anyway, for those who are interested (and it's fair to say that this whole net spend debate has probably outstayed its welcome), here are the updated figures including this season's transfers:

Transfer League

Actually, those figure suggest that pre-Rafa they weren't spending so much by an stretch. Take out £80m for Ronaldo from the current listings and Utd have spent £10m more. Since Liverpool spent have spent just under £90m more since 2004, that says United spent £100m up to then...

 

[The Sean]

It was a major part of it though - before the one crop came through there was cash spent and I'm not so sure they'd have settled in quite so well if they weren't playing with the players they came into.

Yeah, that's probably a fair statement. The signings of the likes of Bruce, Pallister, McClair, Hughes and Ince certainly helped push things along.

Actually, those figure suggest that pre-Rafa they weren't spending so much by an stretch. Take out £80m for Ronaldo from the current listings and Utd have spent £10m more. Since Liverpool spent have spent just under £90m more since 2004, that says United spent £100m up to then...

I didn't really want to bore everyone by going back to this but I have to point out that's not actually right - I think you might be taking the Ronaldo money off the number that didn't include it in the first place. Look at the most recent figures - if you take away the net spend for both clubs since Rafa took over, then from 92-04 United's figure was £107m and Liverpool's was £92m. Same general ballpark.

Ok I'm finishing with this now, so you're welcome to the last word if you want to have it!

 

[Ikki]

Haha, that's awesome. Let's see Ikki make a case against that

Already have, and if you wish to view that argument it was pages back. For anyone that actually knows the history of the two clubs, it's not really an argument at all. You can't simply compare United after having broken multiple transfer records creating a squad to Benitez creating a squad with comparatively little money. The only reason our spending is close is because Ferguson had already done his spending prior and only needed to add a 30 million player here or there whereas we'd use the same amount of money on several players. That's why I point to squad value, if we are spending the same amount and have recouped all bar 20 million in sales, then why is there such a gulf between them?

As for the Ronaldo transfer...yeh it should count, but it distorts reality. The reality is, they were not working within that framework over the past few years. They only just sold that player so they were quite comfortable spenders.

Anyone who actually looks into this argument will see this. However, I can't argue it, since there are a bunch of morons who think me making this argument invalidates the argument for whatever bias they perceive in me. I've already made it anyway, so I'll spare the thread a rehash. I already have one member with sand in his trap for a "96% possession" comment; that's enough.

And here he is again:

Well, that statistic was obviously drawn up by someone whose parents never played football at an international level, and therefore they don't know what they are talking about.

My missus bitches less than this.

He also changed the culture of the club and restructured the youth system. Not denying he spent money and plenty of it, but to say that was the sole reason for United's success is to be rather selective in the credit giving stakes.

I actually agree with this. Money is never the straight answer but it has a lot to do with it. Credit to Ferguson he has done a lot more than spend money but comparing the two clubs as people do is simply wrong.

And yet Liverpool's Premier League spend before Rafa came in (92-04) was still in the same ballpark as United's - it's not as though Liverpool hadn't been spending money over the previous decade.

Anyway, for those who are interested (and it's fair to say that this whole net spend debate has probably outstayed its welcome), here are the updated figures including this season's transfers:

Transfer League

True. Liverpool had spent quite a a lot of money in the 90s actually. But that's not Rafa's fault that Souness wasted the club's wealth and brought it to it's knees. The squad Benitez actually took over was very inferior.

 

[Scaly piscine]

So Manure broke multiple transfer records... so what?

In the end of the day it's the same difference if you buy one very good player for £20m or a handful of **** ones for £20m.

Oh and since Rafa the clueless splurged their squad is still 'very inferior'

 

[Ikki]

They bought multiple players at high prices in the beginning, and they already had quite a few good players bought under the not so frugal Ron Atkinson.

Only now is it once a year since they are settled, are champions and have done well with their youth system. I am not trying to slate United at all, but Ferguson's spending at the start of his tenure and Rafa's at his is almost incomparable. Comparing them at the date that Benitez arrived is, as Marc put it, arbitrary and doesn't even begin to reflect reality.

 

[Loony BoB]

Did SAF buy a lot of crappy players in his first five years, too? I must admit I don't know of the purchases during his early years aside from the obvious successful ones.

 

[The Sean]

Did SAF buy a lot of crappy players in his first five years, too? I must admit I don't know of the purchases during his early years aside from the obvious successful ones.

Two words - Ralph Milne.

 

[GIMH]

Can we get all the 'spend' posts in a separate thread, the best thread in CW is being destroyed by this 'my diamond shoes weren't as expensive as yours and I can prove it' bull****

 

[cover drive man]

Not good last night for Liverpool, pretty much proves we rely too much on Gerrard and Torres. Think they may come to realise that they can do better and decide to leave. Which would probably leave Liverpool a uefa cup team at best. Not good.

 

[sledger]

My missus bitches less than this.

She's also less hot.

 

[The Sean]

I reckon Berbatov is going to finish this match up on homicide charges for the brutal murder of Nani.

Which, as it stands, would be by some distance the most interesting thing to happen in the game.