*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[Magrat Garlick]

You're seriously underplaying the quality of the side Benitez inherited. The defence in particular was outstanding...Riise.

 

[Ikki]

Yeh yeh + rolleyes @ GIMH.

 

[GIMH]

Sorry I couldn't resist

Enjoyed the discussion though

 

[cpr]

Carragher ended up at RB for England because the Neviller wasnt exactly the greatest and Wes Brown is a big orange ****-up. Should've been honoured to play for his country, even if its not in his best position.


TBH, think Carragher is one of the players England have missed the most. Whenever the Rio/Terry partnership is broken up we look dodgy as hell, reckon he could play well with either of them,

 

[S Chanderpaul]

What Irks me about Liverpool, or at least it would do if I was a fan, is the fact that Benitez routinely shells out on players who do not seem to be up to the grade, and then complains that he hasn't been given the financial resources required to mount a proper challenge. Would drive me mad.

He has often had to shell out on them as he has had to settle for second/third best due to Rick Parry's incompetence.

If it wasn't for Rick Parry the likes of Dani Alves, Simao, Barry and others would of been here.

Don't really understand why outsiders comment on other teams transfers without actually knowing half the truth.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I thought that might be the case too, but do you have a source?

Sources vary, due to the uncertain nature of some fees. Here is one, by a Liverpool fan no less, which neatly shows the difference:

Print Page - Premiership Spending

Obviously the Ronaldo fee has a massive bearing on this but it's interesting to note that even without selling Ronaldo then, according to these figures, we'd still have a marginally lower net spend anyway.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Considerably higher? I think it's only 6-7 million difference. I looked for some stats and found this table. Apart from the sale of Ronaldo, I think it's more or less the same. Actually, I found this, as of March 21, which would take out the recent transfer window.

If it's more or less the same, that still utterly undermines your "Liverpool don't have the money to sign good players" point anyway...

Besides, I don't see why you're trying to take the Ronaldo sale out of this, as it is still relevant.

 

[Tom Halsey]

You can't compare a coach who has broken so many transfer records (Ferguson) to one who only broke the club transfer record 2 years ago. Some history:

Ferguson started off with Gary Pallister who was bought for a little over 2 million pounds...but that was the record at the time. He bought Dion Dublin, Steve Bruce, Paul Ince, etc all before he even won anything with a lot of money. It also makes Cantona's 1.2 million not that cheap in retrospect. This is all despite the fact that he inherited a side with good players and a club with financial backing to help him even more.

A year or so later he signed Keane, another british transfer record for 3.75 million pounds. A year later, he again broke that transfer record getting Andy cole for 7 million pounds. A couple years later, Dwight Yorke for 12.6 million. That same season they bought Jaap Stam for 10 and a bit million pounds ...making him the most expensive defender in history - and most expensive dutch player ever. A few years later, Stam's record would be broken when Van Nistelrooy arrives for 18 million pounds...also breaking the british transfer record. They also bought Barthez for almost 8 million, making him the most expensive goalkeeper ever bought by a british club. And AGAIN, after that they broke the transfer record with Veron being bought for 28 million pounds. It was not too long after they broke the british transfer record again, and record for a defender signing Rio Ferdinand for 30 million pounds. That transfer record was broken a few years later when United signed Wayne Rooney for 31 million pounds...the most expensive transfer for a teenager. This all makes the 16-18 million pound signing of Carrick pretty cheap actually. Nani and Anderson being bought for similar fees. Just last season they would have had the most expensive signing again but for Robinho, with Berbatov coming for about 31 million pounds...

So, again, trying to compare a team that has been built on the back of 23 years to one that was overhauled in 4-5 years is a mismatch.

Sorry for the very long post, but thought I'd just mention more points ahead of time since I know where this exchange is heading.

Hang on, weren't you the one going on about how gross spend is completely irrelevant? By your own rules then, all of this above quoted is completely irrelevant.

Anyway I cba with this anymore, the point is, the claim that just about every Liverpool fan loves to make about how they can't match United and Chelsea's spending power is complete bollocks, as those net spend figures you yourself posted prove.

 

[Johnners]

What Irks me about Liverpool, or at least it would do if I was a fan, is the fact that Benitez routinely shells out on players who do not seem to be up to the grade, and then complains that he hasn't been given the financial resources required to mount a proper challenge. Would drive me mad.

It does

 

[sledger]

He has often had to shell out on them as he has had to settle for second/third best due to Rick Parry's incompetence.

If it wasn't for Rick Parry the likes of Dani Alves, Simao, Barry and others would of been here.

Don't really understand why outsiders comment on other teams transfers without actually knowing half the truth.

I have a solid grasp of the truth, and will comment on whatever I please. This list of players posted by Uppercut eariler in the thread supports my earlier point quite nicely. Just because the players you mentioned didn't end up at the club it hardly means he hasn't had money to throw at whatever takes his fancy. The signings of Torres, Keane, Mascherano etc.. have hardly been cheap and demonstrate that he has had the money to spend, it's the fact that he signs these players and then comes back and complains about a lack of money that just strikes me as being particularly stupid.

 

[GIMH]

TBF it is widely accepted that he didn't want Keane, so there's close to what, £20m, spent when he'd have rather stuck it elsewhere. But **** knows who he's have bought, so it might be a moot point

 

[aussie]

Yea that Keane saga was very odd, he surely would have made Liverpool better.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

If he actually said that, it's pretty funny

His actual words, having watched the press conference were:

"I Joleon we've got one of the best defenders in the league, one who'll be at that level for many years to come."

Or something very similar. Still pretty funny, he'd be behind at least 5 or 6 defenders in the league.

 

[NUFAN]

Apparently he's not good at sticking to the same striker for the entire game.

In other news..

Richard Dunne's debut top 40 single

 

[Craig]

There you go aussie:

Bearing in mind that Dutch players haven't always worked out at Inter. Dennis Bergkamp was a flop before becoming an Arsenal legend.

 

[aussie]

Thank you for rubbing it in yo. I shall be watching his progress with great interest in the coming years indeed.

 

[Uppercut]

That's all well and good, you're wrong though

He signed for United after Leeds were relegated, which was 04. Rooney also signed in the summer of 04, but not until the season had started.

edit - he actually scored a beauty in the Charity Shield. I remember watching it and my Stepdad said, "he'll do well there," but obviously the scouse fat manc **** changed all that, Smith had injury problems as well, and let's face it, was never Man U quality

Haha, there's that specific memory again. Smith scored the best United team goal I can remember, the second in the 7-1 win over Roma.

 

[Ikki]

If it's more or less the same, that still utterly undermines your "Liverpool don't have the money to sign good players" point anyway...

It doesn't, as I've explained, since so much of your team comes before Rafa and the fact that your manager has routinely broken transfer records to get players.

Besides, I don't see why you're trying to take the Ronaldo sale out of this, as it is still relevant.

Because a) it is a ridiculously high fee that puts all that buying and selling out of perspective (in fact, if I read correctly that link says you guys would be first by a distance without the Ronaldo transfer but are 7th with it, which is lower than Everton, Villa and even Sunderland) b) it only just happened and doesn't account for the last 5 years. It's not like you had that 80 million to space out your spending in the last 5 years, it just occurred now.

Hang on, weren't you the one going on about how gross spend is completely irrelevant? By your own rules then, all of this above quoted is completely irrelevant.

I am not really referring to gross spending in the above. We buy a middling player and sell for a middling player. You break the transfer record and replace said player with a player of equal quality. The fact that 3-4 million is peanuts now doesn't undermine the fact that it was a british transfer record when your manager started out. Buying so many expensive players back then obviously gives your club a better squad to compete with, and then needs little spending later (for example, when prices have tripled and quadrupled) to buy more.

In hindsight, your manager had much more money to buy a fleet of class players when he started out. Once he had a winning team in place, he could spend his entire kitty on one player. As mentioned 10 times already, Rafa rehauled the whole squad + the youth team with what Ferguson would spend his kitty on for one player. You shouldn't even compare the two or even try to say it's been a level playing field, yet that's the point people are trying to bring across when mentioning net spending however myopic or flawed that argument is.

 

[duffer]

I think charging Eduardo is hilarious as it won't even be the worst dive of the week. Trial by media is right. What worries me is that previously the press hysteria was more or less ignored by the powers that be but reacting to it like this is dangerous territory imo. It emboldens the rags and the **** stirrers.

Arsene also said Arsenal would certainly challenge every decision in Europe that went against them. Quite looking forward to this. The club as a whole seem to be seething by this. Just hope it has a positive impact on how we play tonight.

 

[Uppercut]

I think charging Eduardo is hilarious as it won't even be the worst dive of the week. Trial by media is right. What worries me is that previously the press hysteria was more or less ignored by the powers that be but reacting to it like this is dangerous territory imo. It emboldens the rags and the **** stirrers.

Arsene also said Arsenal would certainly challenge every decision in Europe that went against them. Quite looking forward to this. The club as a whole seem to be seething by this. Just hope it has a positive impact on how we play tonight.

I think retribution for Eduardo is 100% right. He dived, and should get a ban. Full marks to UEFA for finally having the nuts to take action against someone for simulation.

The bad decisions were all the times when someone dived and didn't get a retrospective ban. It's understandable that Arsenal fans are upset that they're the team who have copped a ban when so many others have gotten away with it, but you gotta start somewhere. The time to complain is when action isn't taken against someone else.