*Official* England in West Indies

[Scaly piscine]

I see Baker's belatedly been downgraded from RF to RMF on Cricinfo.

 

[TT Boy]

Nash into the attack already and his about as good with the ball as Ian Bell is. Lots of pressure on Shah for if you can't make runs against this lot then you never will...

 

[Richard]

Shah should've made runs at Kensington too, that was the easiest conditions you could wish to see. Was disappointing he didn't.

ABBA multimixes on the tannoy, ITSTL.

 

[garage flower]

Nash into the attack already and his about as good with the ball as Ian Bell is. Lots of pressure on Shah for if you can't make runs against this lot then you never will...

7 career first-class wickets and averages a couple of overs a game. Not obvious credentials for a first change test match bowler.

 

[Richard]

Second-change TBF, though Nash does look a bit better than 7 wickets at the age of 31 would suggest. I don't think he's as good as Ian Bell at all though TBH.

 

[Martin1]

7 career first-class wickets and averages a couple of overs a game. Not obvious credentials for a first change test match bowler.

I can think of Test batsmen who would be destroying this attack. England seem to be content to play maiden overs

 

[roseboy64]

Wouldn't that be a bit too easy and much less fun?

If we're not here to debate what is, at best, a perplexing selection then I'm obviously confused as to the purpose of a "cricket chat" discussion forum. But then I am easily confused.

By the way, Cricinfo reports that Powell has now bowled ANOTHER good ball. That's 2 out of 24 now. Does this represent progress (and that's not quite a rhetorical question)?

Don't agree with that TBH. Anyone can be wise after the event. Personally, I don't think it's crucifix-worthy, especially if this is true. If you're 1-0 up and haven't won a series for yonks (and against this oppo for 11 years) it's forgiveable to be incredibly keen to do all you possibly can to eliminate the chance of defeat in the last Test of the series.

But there's no way you can say "if West Indies get the draw it was good selection, if England force the win anyway it was bad selection". That depends on the players, not the selectors.

I can't honestly say I think I'd not pick seven batsman plus wicketkeeper-batsman in the situation West Indies found themselves in this morning. Taylor's injury has obviously forced one hand, and it's possible Benn's indiscipline has forced another. I'd only pick Lionel Baker in extreme circumstances - he's clearly not that good - and obviously Daren Powell's retention in a three-man attack will always raise questions.

Yet the three-man attack in itself isn't something I'd neccessarily be criticising. To some extent, it's understandable. But it's not guaranteed to work. It's a risk that can be adjudged to be worth taking or not, but you should do the judgement before the outcome has become clear, not after.

If there's a blindingly obvious error made in selection then by all means there should be criticism. IMO, there's no obnvious error made here. As I've pointed out there may've been disciplinary reasons for Benn's exclusion and Taylor's injured. Considering there ws no extra bowler in the squad this is the only lineup that could be out out there.

Also, there are a lot of people underestimating Baker without having seenmuch of him. Granted I don't think he'll be much success at Test level he's hardly been given enough time for him to be judged off of. Only one Test and he could have been a bundle of nerves in New Zealand. Considering he bowled well enough in the ODIs there may be a case for him doing something here.

Why does Sammy, who incidentally has taken 21 wkts @ 22.71 this season together with a handy 285 runs @ 28.5, have to "do much" to replace someone who does virtually nothing?

Was going off of a few matches before where he hadn't done much. Seems he's been doing better then. He wasn't near the top 10 the last I remembered hence why thought he'd beed to do more.

 

[roseboy64]

Deighton Butler another option considering he's taken 3 wickets so far with Barbados at 72-5. He's been in the wickets as well but he's not particularly young anymore IIRC.

 

[Richard]

If there's a blindingly obvious error made in selection then by all means there should be criticism. IMO, there's no obnvious error made here. As I've pointed out there may've been disciplinary reasons for Benn's exclusion and Taylor's injured. Considering there ws no extra bowler in the squad this is the only lineup that could be out out there.

As I say - I don't think there's an obvious error either. I don't have a massive issue with the team West Indies selected, especially if Benn's been dropped for indiscipline, though it is a very unusual one.

However, as I say, I find it's wrong to say "if a selection achieves the desired results, it's a good one; if it doesn't, it's a bad one". The merits of a selection are in what's happened before it's made, not after. After a selection has been made, it's all down to the players.

 

[Richard]

Whenever I see Trinidad I'm always amazed it isn't raining.

 

[Richard]

Decent first session.

 

[shivfan]

If there's a blindingly obvious error made in selection then by all means there should be criticism. IMO, there's no obnvious error made here. As I've pointed out there may've been disciplinary reasons for Benn's exclusion and Taylor's injured. Considering there ws no extra bowler in the squad this is the only lineup that could be out out there.

Also, there are a lot of people underestimating Baker without having seenmuch of him. Granted I don't think he'll be much success at Test level he's hardly been given enough time for him to be judged off of. Only one Test and he could have been a bundle of nerves in New Zealand. Considering he bowled well enough in the ODIs there may be a case for him doing something here.

Was going off of a few matches before where he hadn't done much. Seems he's been doing better then. He wasn't near the top 10 the last I remembered hence why thought he'd beed to do more.

I'm sure the WI selections were tactical....

They're negative selections of a team playing for a draw from Day One!

They knew Taylor was carrying an injury, and they should've ensured that Rampaul stays behind, or even Nikita Miller flies out, as cover....

No, I don't buy that. I think the WI selectors should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

 

[roseboy64]

I'm sure the WI selections were tactical....

They're negative selections of a team playing for a draw from Day One!

They knew Taylor was carrying an injury, and they should've ensured that Rampaul stays behind, or even Nikita Miller flies out, as cover....

No, I don't buy that. I think the WI selectors should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

All that for failing to bring in an extra bowler? Nah. I think they've done a decent enough job since the start of the New Zealand tour. Not perfect but better than the previous set.

 

[roseboy64]

As I say - I don't think there's an obvious error either. I don't have a massive issue with the team West Indies selected, especially if Benn's been dropped for indiscipline, though it is a very unusual one.

However, as I say, I find it's wrong to say "if a selection achieves the desired results, it's a good one; if it doesn't, it's a bad one". The merits of a selection are in what's happened before it's made, not after. After a selection has been made, it's all down to the players.

That wasn't my point though. It's the judging of a player's capability withotu having seen much of them i.e Baker. HIs record's not phenomenal but this season he's done well in the few games he's played so could be some improvement and he must be doing something in the nets for him to be kept in the squad all five matches.

 

[garage flower]

I'm sure the WI selections were tactical....

They're negative selections of a team playing for a draw from Day One!

They knew Taylor was carrying an injury, and they should've ensured that Rampaul stays behind, or even Nikita Miller flies out, as cover....

No, I don't buy that. I think the WI selectors should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Yep, it's the usual organisational inertia on the part of the WICB that rankles. Surely they could have made provision to provide cover for Taylor. He's been under an injury cloud since the final innings of the last test match if not longer.

 

[garage flower]

Was going off of a few matches before where he hadn't done much. Seems he's been doing better then. He wasn't near the top 10 the last I remembered hence why thought he'd beed to do more.

He's doing as well as or better than any other non-spin bowler in the Caribbean, as is usually the case, I think.

My real point though, was that Powell isn't doing anything so pretty much anyone else'll do.

 

[Uppercut]

Is this another prank pitch? Cricinfo says extremely low and slow, but that could mean spin will play a part later. And by "spin will play a part" i mean "Monty will completely and totally waste excellent conditions for spin bowling and Swann will bowl pretty well and pick up the five least important wickets in the West Indian side".

How's it looking?

 

[Uppercut]

He's doing as well as or better than any other non-spin bowler in the Caribbean, as is usually the case, I think.

My real point though, was that Powell isn't doing anything so pretty much anyone else'll do.

Pick another spinner maybe? Dave Mohammed? Amit Jaggernauth?

 

[Richard]

Is this another prank pitch? Cricinfo says extremely low and slow, but that could mean spin will play a part later. And by "spin will play a part" i mean "Monty will completely and totally waste excellent conditions for spin bowling and Swann will bowl pretty well and pick up the five least important wickets in the West Indian side".

How's it looking?

Not that far off that. Gayle and Hinds haven't got much turn so far, which suggests it's not a bunsen (yet at least), but Swann and MSP both spin it far more than either of them.

It's been low and slow, but there has been some uneven bounce, already. If that goes on, really accurate seam-bowling will be the order of the day. Which England... don't have any of.

 

[garage flower]

As I say - I don't think there's an obvious error either. I don't have a massive issue with the team West Indies selected.

I find that very surprising. Seems self-evident to me that it's a much too negative, unbalanced team. The injury to Taylor and speculation about Benn don't change that, other than to indict the whole WICB rather than just its selection panel.