*Official* England in West Indies

[Burgey]

Not a chance in hell. Other than Gayle, Sarwan and Chanderpaul, their batting is Bangladesh standard. They badly need Bravo back, and some reliable, ultra-talented batsmen. I don't see them winning a single away series other than Bangladesh.

Who gives a rats about away series? If they win most or all of their home series it would be a massive improvement on their recent form.

Comparisons with Bangladesh are a bit odious - they aren't the team in this series which capitulated for 51

 

[Zinzan]

That isn't a good enough reason to cut 30+ overs from what WI needed to survive to get a draw. Against SA England were screwed by Panesar being completely and utterly impotent, end of story.

You truly astound me You've been calling for Panesar's head for Donkey's years now; finally they drop em, England lose, and yet you still bring his name up

 

[TT Boy]

He outscored Cook. The chronic defensive approach in (a) not enforcing the follow on, (b) sending in a night watchman, (c) pissing around at 3 an over yesterday morning, (d) batting on forever, and (e) getting a lead of 500 means we have no right to feel sorry for ourselves.

Entirely our own bloody fault.

Well said.

Fair play to the Windies though, they were outplayed but still fought and came away with a great result. In the recent past they would have folded as soon as Chanderpaul went. Good stuff.

England are ****ed if KP is out.

 

[Steulen]

Well said.

Fair play to the Windies though, they were outplayed but still fought and came away with a great result. In the recent past they would have folded as soon as Chanderpaul went. Good stuff.

England are ****ed if KP is out.

Yeah, is there any news on his finger injury yet? To lose both Flintoff and Pietersen would make WI favourites for Barbados imo.

 

[GIMH]

What a match hey. Was really on the edge of my seat last night, screaming blue murder at the TV.

Anyhow, I certainly am not calling for Strauss's head but it will be interesting to see how we respond to this.

Thoughts on Stuart Broad, people? Might dig that thread...

 

[Richard]

This is turning out to be one of the gunnest series in recent times. In fact, I've never been so happier for test cricket in a long time. Should Windies win this series, it would be the end of the downward curve that has been plaguing them since 2000.

Try 1995. And I think you could trace the beginning of the upward movement to at least 12 months ago.

To be 100% exact. It wouldn't be Australia 95. More so in PAK 97.

Yeah it was 1997/98 that the downward spiral really begun - for the 11 years before that it'd just been a very, very gradual downward slant. Since 1997/98, WI have been flattened routinely by most teams. And certainly this one series won't in itself end the downward curve, any more than the other few small steps they've been taking since a year or so ago. I think rock-bottom was probably reached on the England tour in 2007. From the 2007/08 South Africa tour onwards, there's been a notable upward curve. But there's still much to be done, even if they were to end-up winning this series 3-0.

 

[Richard]

The chronic defensive approach in (a) not enforcing the follow on, (b) sending in a night watchman, (c) pissing around at 3 an over yesterday morning, (d) batting on forever, and (e) getting a lead of 500 means we have no right to feel sorry for ourselves.

Entirely our own bloody fault.

Much as I know you love to blame defensiveness for any failure to win, the reality is that the fault lies in being unable to knock-over a couple of tailenders. Precious little else.

 

[Burgey]

What a match hey. Was really on the edge of my seat last night, screaming blue murder at the TV.

Anyhow, I certainly am not calling for Strauss's head but it will be interesting to see how we respond to this.

Thoughts on Stuart Broad, people? Might dig that thread...[/QUOTE]
Still looks effeminate, imo.

 

[Richard]

More to the point, what on earth is to be done with Harmison? Since Oct 2005 he's played 26 matches and averaged 37.3. And since he came back into the team last summer 4 matches averaging 41.1. If he was a youngster coming through that's one thing, but surely at some point enough is enough.

Harmison is likely, I'd think, to be around the setup if not neccessarily always in the team for some time yet. All he's ever done of note is those 7 Tests in early 2004 - in his other 48 Tests he currently averages 39.24, which flatters him considerably as he's many times dismissed a couple of tailenders or got a wicket before a declaration having bowled utter nonsense.

However, Harmison as pointed-out regularly by one of our posters on here has stuff that is rarely seen in England bowlers (ie, considerable height plus 90mph speed) and in the pursuit of trying to utilise this it's often lost sight of the fact that this is no use in itself and that he doesn't and almost never has possessed anything else. I don't see Harmison dropping-out of the picture for quite a while.

 

[Manee]

Thoughts on Stuart Broad, people? Might dig that thread...

My opinion of him is that he is an extremely talented batsman who could average 30+ throughout a long Test career. However, I have had reservations of his bowling and felt there was no justification for him being kept in the side with his poor Test record after his first half dozen Tests, after considering the poor FC bowling record. I felt that it was inconsistent policy and similar statistical situations led to the dropping of Mahmood and Plunkett. I also felt that his batting was keeping him in the side which was not a reasonable reason as he was down at eight. I have suggested in the past, perhaps not on these forums, that he should have been batting seven or six if England wish to play him as his batting had impacted in large part on his selection.

He seems to be realising the talent which the England selectors have viewed in his bowling with some fine spells of quick bowling. He has a lot going for him with the ball, but I felt he was a bit raw, with such common problems as a lack of stamina (lack of sustained pace) and lack of accuracy throughout a spell rather than just an over. His ODI record though, has showed that he has never had a problem delivering in short spells and his Test career so far has backed up that in isolated spells, he can be a fine Test bowler. Ishant Sharma has shown that bowlers can 'cook' (or de-raw) as Test bowlers in a quick period of time but I never thought Broad could and only time will tell if he can, but the signs are looking good...

 

[kingkallis]

Missed out on 2 good test matches and a third which had an interesting 10 balls

don't know when our cable guy will give the channel showing games in India now going to miss the SA vs Aus test series also... its the same channel showing the series also

Damn you dont have Ten Sports? We have a cable war here so 2 companies are offering FREE cable services with 182 channels. Free set top box and now Free cable

 

[GIMH]

My opinion of him is that he is an extremely talented batsman who could average 30+ throughout a long Test career. However, I have had reservations of his bowling and felt there was no justification for him being kept in the side with his poor Test record after his first half dozen Tests, after considering the poor FC bowling record. I felt that it was inconsistent policy and similar statistical situations led to the dropping of Mahmood and Plunkett. I also felt that his batting was keeping him in the side which was not a reasonable reason as he was down at eight. I have suggested in the past, perhaps not on these forums, that he should have been batting seven or six if England wish to play him as his batting had impacted in large part on his selection.

He seems to be realising the talent which the England selectors have viewed in his bowling with some fine spells of quick bowling. He has a lot going for him with the ball, but I felt he was a bit raw, with such common problems as a lack of stamina (lack of sustained pace) and lack of accuracy throughout a spell rather than just an over. His ODI record though, has showed that he has never had a problem delivering in short spells and his Test career so far has backed up that in isolated spells, he can be a fine Test bowler. Ishant Sharma has shown that bowlers can 'cook' (or de-raw) as Test bowlers in a quick period of time but I never thought Broad could and only time will tell if he can, but the signs are looking good...

Interesting read, your thoughts on Broad have been consistent & interesting since last summer. I think the stamina issue may be why he hasn't been getting long spells from Strauss, and why Strauss is receiving flak for not bowling him enough.

 

[Richard]

There's no doubt Broad's bowled far, far better in these last 2 Tests than he ever has in the longer form of the game before. I remain to be convinced, of course, as 2 games proves precious little. But it's a step in the right direction, which is more than he's ever managed to make before.

 

[B.Scott4England]

Well with Freddie keeling over and the other quicks not in the best of form it is time for Broad's coming of age. He is reputed to thrive under the pressure of responsibility. Let's see it Stewie

 

[ozone]

Broad is starting to look a bit more comfortable at this level now, although obviously thats after only two tests. Rest of series will show how far he has really come. TBH, people who have already decided if he is or isn't going to make it, or had done so before this series are mental; how you can judge how a player is going to develop when he's 22 is beyond me.

IMO, this test was far more important in establishing Graeme Swann as a genuine test prospect than it will prove for Broad. Swann has now shown that he is capable of taking wickets at the highest level and should have guaranteed himself a test spot in the side until at least the beginning of the English summer. For me, that is the main positive to come out of this test.

 

[alw1971]

As said above, with Flintoff in and out and not getting any younger we may be relying on Broad being our next major allrounder! It's now up to him to prove the point with bat and ball!

 

[alw1971]

Broad is starting to look a bit more comfortable at this level now, although obviously thats after only two tests. Rest of series will show how far he has really come. TBH, people who have already decided if he is or isn't going to make it, or had done so before this series are mental; how you can judge how a player is going to develop when he's 22 is beyond me.

IMO, this test was far more important in establishing Graeme Swann as a genuine test prospect than it will prove for Broad. Swann has now shown that he is capable of taking wickets at the highest level and should have guaranteed himself a test spot in the side until at least the beginning of the English summer. For me, that is the main positive to come out of this test.

I agree with Swann being a big positive, glad to see him get some wickets!

 

[GIMH]

If Swann's decent performance isn's just a flash in the pain, then obviously it allows us to select our best pace attack without having to think too much about batting ability etc, Panesar's ongoing selection obviously has resulted in a few problems in that respect

 

[Pothas]

So can England still win this series? Would probably bet on a 1-1 draw right now, am pretty confidant that England will win at least one of the last two test matches even if Flintoff is injured. We all know that the batting is pretty fragile but there are just about enough runs in the side (given the opposition) and Cook is bound to a get a big score sometime soon. Just remains to be seen if the bowling can be good enough, think an awful lot depends on the West Indies batting.

 

[fredfertang]

Hopefully the WIndies will have an attack of overconfidence - without that they appear to have the self belief to hold on given England's frailties