*Official* England in West Indies

[Furball]

Ok, are there any circumstances where anyone thinks England will not enforce the follow-on should they get themselves in a position to do so ?

The only situation where it would even remotely make sense not to enforce the follow on would be if the Windies were bowled out cheaply by the middle of the second session tomorrow. Give Cook, Shah etc. another innings.

Such a decision IMO would be extremely stupid, but it's the only situation where any sort of case for not enforcing the follow on can be made.

 

[Uppercut]

Ok, are there any circumstances where anyone thinks England will not enforce the follow-on should they get themselves in a position to do so ?

I think they'll enforce it under any circumstances, purely because Strauss will feel he needs to do the bold thing given the start to his captaincy. And it's probably the right thing to do too...

 

[Woodster]

Yes I think it's unlikely too that we will not enforce the follow on. If WI bat out tomorrow, then obviously with time running out of the game, we have to enforce the follow on on day 4. If we bowl WI out tomorrow, the only reasoning would be to take build our lead to what should be a superior position, and ensure they are batting on day 5 on a pitch that looks at though it will be getting worse.

However, if we do bowl them out tomorrow, bowlers should still be fresh enough to go again. Easy to say sat watching it on the sofa though!

 

[FBU]

Apologies to those not listening to TMS, but sometimes CMJ is such an idiot. After Anderson has beaten an outside edge in each of his first 3 overs, plus almost had Gayle caught at mid-off, apparently England need to try someone else because he also sent a couple towards leg.

Well he last bowled in the warm up match nearly 3 weeks ago.

Did someone move the bowlers markers, 8 no balls between three of the bowlers.

 

[trishan]

Only Two Outcomes

There are only two outcomes in this match, the draw or the England win. At the end of day 2, England are favourites at $1.72 but they will have to play very well to avoid the draw.

The draw is paying $2.10 which is exceptional value. That said, the last match was also looking destined for a draw before the Windies routed them. Don't think either team can pull off something like that in this game though. My money is on the draw.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Strongly agree with Goughy re: Collingwood on the previous page.

 

[craigyc43]

I think they'll enforce it under any circumstances, purely because Strauss will feel he needs to do the bold thing given the start to his captaincy. And it's probably the right thing to do too...

I agree with this, i too think strauss will enforce the follow on and i think it will be a decision made based on the fragility of the confidence of the current England team.

 

[sammy2]

You guys are oh so sure of WI getting dismiss cheaply. I don't know why, because if memory serve me right just some days ago England got ran over.

 

[Stapel]

You guys are oh so sure of WI getting dismiss cheaply. I don't know why, because if memory serve me right just some days ago England got ran over.

Yeah, but the Windies have changed a batsman (Marshal) for a pretty mediocre if not useless allrounder (Hinds) and Gayle is already out. We all know Devon Smith is a louzy batsman. The WI batting is totally dependant on Gayle, Sarwan and C'paul. With Gayle gone, Windies need both Sarwan and C'apul to ton up, to have a chance to avoid the follow on.

Adding Simmons & Bravo to this WI side, and. more important, remove SMith and Hinds, would make this team a lot more dangerous. For now, I cannot see the Windies setting a fine total.

 

[TT Boy]

Plus for the Windies would be the performance of Daren Powell, at least they can drop him now.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, but the Windies have changed a batsman (Marshal) for a pretty mediocre if not useless allrounder (Hinds)

The fact that Hinds can bowl a bit should not detract from his batting pedigree. He's a far superior batsman to Marshall (as it stands, anyway) and he deserves his place on batting alone.

 

[Stapel]

The fact that Hinds can bowl a bit should not detract from his batting pedigree. He's a far superior batsman to Marshall (as it stands, anyway) and he deserves his place on batting alone.

Maybe I am a bit harsh on Hinds. But is he a far superior batsman?

Anyway, looking at the current WI line up, I think they need more specialist batsmen.

 

[Prince EWS]

Maybe I am a bit harsh on Hinds. But is he a far superior batsman?

Anyway, looking at the current WI line up, I think they need more specialist batsmen.

Just close your eyes and pretend Hinds can't bowl for a moment.

This is what he's done in the last few seasons with the bat:

2004/05 - 532 runs @ 48.36
2005/06 - 746 runs @ 57.38
2006/07 - 446 runs @ 34.30
2007/08 - 374 runs @ 46.75
2008/09 - 240 runs @ 83.57

Since the start of the 2004/05 season, he's scored 2,638 runs at an average of 51.59. That's awesome. Simmons played well in the tour game but that's just one game in all reality and his figures in this period don't come anywhere close to matching Hinds's.

Yes, Hinds can also bowl, and he's done well domestically with the ball too, but that's just a bonus and hasn't really impacted on his selection.

Anyway, looking at the current WI line up, I think they need more specialist batsmen.

The entire top six have been selected on their batting alone. Six specialist batsmen is plenty. Don't be fooled by the fact that Hinds can bowl; he deserves his spot based on his batting.

 

[Richard]

Do people think this England attack has what it takes to bowl the West Indies out twice here? Because I still firmly believe their bowling is quite easily their stronger suit, but they've failed to take wickets on fairly flat decks a fair few times recently. Thoughts?

I don't think England have the bowling-attack to knock West Indies over twice, but I do think West Indies have the batting to fall over twice and it certainly seems the pitch has the potential to deteriorate enough to cause anyone to be knocked-over twice.

 

[Richard]

There are only two outcomes in this match, the draw or the England win.

Where's Wil.i.am and his Captain Obvious picture again?

 

[Uppercut]

I don't think England have the bowling-attack to knock West Indies over twice, but I do think West Indies have the batting to fall over twice and it certainly seems the pitch has the potential to deteriorate enough to cause anyone to be knocked-over twice.

It's a combination of both. West Indies won't throw away 20 wickets, England won't produce 20 unplayable deliveries, but looking at both, do England have enough?

 

[Richard]

Yeah, but the Windies have changed a batsman (Marshal) for a pretty mediocre if not useless allrounder (Hinds) and Gayle is already out. We all know Devon Smith is a louzy batsman. The WI batting is totally dependant on Gayle, Sarwan and C'paul. With Gayle gone, Windies need both Sarwan and C'apul to ton up, to have a chance to avoid the follow on.

Adding Simmons & Bravo to this WI side, and. more important, remove SMith and Hinds, would make this team a lot more dangerous. For now, I cannot see the Windies setting a fine total.

Replacing Xavier Marshall with Ryan Hinds strengthens West Indies' batting considerably.

Hinds is a better batsman in his sleep than Marshall.

EDIT: should've checked the Cribbages. Sheesh, I didn't realise how unbelievably unlucky Hinds has been not to have been a WI fixture the last 5 years. And Runako Morton has been picked ahead of him! Not to mention Sarwan and Ganga.

 

[Richard]

It's a combination of both. West Indies won't throw away 20 wickets, England won't produce 20 unplayable deliveries, but looking at both, do England have enough?

I think the match could certainly end with an England victory. The signs are pretty good.

Taking nothing for granted though.

 

[Richard]

And with the fact that we've already got Gayle, the one player who I think can take them past the follow-on total within a relatively short space of time

I don't neccessarily think it's likely to happen today, but make no mistake, Chanderpaul can score far quicker than Gayle will ever be able to dream of scoring. AND he can do it in a way that's far less likely to get him out as well.

As I say, I'm certainly not expecting him to come out and play all sorts of shots (at whatever time) today. But, well... I've said it before. You never completely know what's coming with Chanderpaul. If the mood takes him, he can completely murder any bowling attack.

 

[ozone]

Chanderpaul can score far quicker than Gayle will ever be able to dream of scoring.

What?