**Official** England in The West Indies

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I don't think that this pitch has specifically been prepared to avoid a whitewash at all - it's a typical St John's track.

Saying that, perhaps it is a little too batsman-friendly.

Still plenty of time left in the game - 105 overs tomorrow plus two full days. England will be pretty exhausted so I'd give West Indies a much better than even chance of winning the game at this stage.

Interesting to note that the Last time Lara hit a triple on this ground, the West Indies didn't even get a first-innings lead, let alone win the game.

I'd say Lara should bat until lunch chasing Hayden. If he's not close to it by then, declare and send in the Englishmen. Gower made a good point - the West Indian bowlers are shorter and may consequently get more out of this pitch than the English variety.

All that said, if it rains tomorrow morning for more than two hours, Lara should bat on until 400+.

 

[luckyeddie]

Lara just said that the target was 700-750.

If the team achieves that and he is not out, we're looking at probably 400 from BCL.

 

[luckyeddie]

And I'm doing the day three match report

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Lara just said that the target was 700-750.

If the team achieves that and he is not out, we're looking at probably 400 from BCL.

Having seen the pitch, he'd have to throw it away or get run out not reach 381 at least.

 

[luckyeddie]

Having seen the pitch, he'd have to throw it away or get run out not reach 381 at least.

... and yet he's looked in trouble at times, sorely out of touch on occasion too. It admirably demonstrates the character of the man - that he can produce such an epic performance when not at the very top of his game.

The new ball's the critical time tomorrow. Certainly Harmison troubled him today - if Lara can get through the first 10 overs tomorrow, I'd stake your house on it.

 

[badgerhair]

Interestingly enough there was no change in seam position and no deflection, so I doubt there was a nick. Also, Lara is a walker.

I'm not so sure about using "Lara's a walker" as evidence, because as far as I can see, he's a Colin Cowdrey-style walker: will walk if he's made runs, but doesn't if he's still in single figures.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[marc71178]

if Lara can get through the first 10 overs tomorrow, I'd stake your house on it.

Well, I've just taken 7-4 that he won't get it - I have a suspicion he'll either get out or declare...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'm not so sure about using "Lara's a walker" as evidence, because as far as I can see, he's a Colin Cowdrey-style walker: will walk if he's made runs, but doesn't if he's still in single figures.

Cheers,

Mike

You clearly haven't seen much of Lara then.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well, I've just taken 7-4 that he won't get it - I have a suspicion he'll either get out or declare...

He's stated that he'll go for it.

 

[Adamc]

Regardless of suggestions of the flatness of the pitch and the non-dismissal on 0, it takes a brilliant batsman to score 313 chanceless runs. It takes an even rarer batsman to do it twice in his career. If Lara does go on to break the record (or even if he doesn't), I will be somewhat dismayed if people try to disparage his achievement like they did Matthew Hayden's; after all, it has been the English bowling attack which has dominated (and indeed won) this series. Hence, Lara's achievement can hardly be devalued by the fact that it came against an incompetent bowling attack (because, evidently, it didn't).
So, congratulations to Lara for being only the second batsmen to score two triples in Tests (as already mentioned), and, perhaps less noticed, joining Javed Miandad in second place for most double-centuries (7). First is some way off though (Bradman with 13!).

... and yet he's looked in trouble at times, sorely out of touch on occasion too. It admirably demonstrates the character of the man - that he can produce such an epic performance when not at the very top of his game.

Absolutely. This is one of the reasons why Lara has been my favourite batsman since I took up the game: I have always seen cricket as a struggle between bat and ball (unlike baseball, which is too one-sided, what with all the waist-high full tosses), and Lara for me epitomises this 'struggle'. I haven't seen enough of this current innings to comment, but certainly many of his previous innings have carried this characteristic. The one which stands out in my mind is his 202 in the first Test against South Africa recently. He looked at times as though he were sure to get out, but nonetheless carried on and improved to score a double-ton.

I hope the West Indies bat at least another 20-30 overs, as I think they still have 23 overs left to make up from day 1. Of course Lara has to give his bowlers some chance of bowling out England twice (or at least once), so I imagine he will go at a fairly brisk pace. Admittedly, the chance of a result seems remote, but some early breakthroughs by Edwards, Best and co. could change things.

 

[Craig]

As much as it is a special innings, but to make a huge score when the pressure is off kind of takes the gloss of it IMO.

Had it been in front of his home crowd in the second Test or even in the 3rd Test it probably would of been more significant or even better.

Still congragulations Lara. Was there 105 overs bowled?

 

[luckyeddie]

As much as it is a special innings, but to make a huge score when the pressure is off kind of takes the gloss of it IMO.

Had it been in front of his home crowd in the second Test or even in the 3rd Test it probably would of been more significant or even better.

Still congragulations Lara. Was there 105 overs bowled?

Sorry, disagree.

A triple in test cricket is something so rare - all right, they're like the bus service where I live. You get none for a couple of years then three come along at once.

Since Gooch in 1990, there has been an average of one every couple of years - before that, it was less than one a decade. This says more about pitch preparation then anything else.

There are other reasons for their relative frequency, of course - a more rapid scoring rate in test cricket in general, better covers and post-rain clean-up so interruptions take less time out of the game (although this could be countered by 'twitchy' umpires) - and just the general frequency itself ("I see there's been a few triples of late. Might as well have a go myself. It can't be so hard, can it?").

Well, I reckon it's still a staggering achievement - and I sincerely hope that BCL goes on to make 400 and re-stake his claim to be the greatest batsman since Bradman (dons flame-proof clothing and legs it) then gets bowled by Steve Harmison.

Editid for Craig's points...

Yes, there was a full 105 overs.

When BCL started his innings, the pressure was most certainly ON - it could be argued that until the West Indies had made 500+ and BCL was well on his way to his 300, the pressure was still on, probably mose so than at any time in his career. Mind-numbing, carrying the weight of millions, dare not contemplate the possibility of failure pressure.

I heard the current match described as 'The most important in West Indian cricket history' and Lara's knock described as 'the most significant in West Indian history' because of the damage a 4-0 whitewash at home could have done.

THAT's pressure.

 

[Arrow]

As much as it is a special innings, but to make a huge score when the pressure is off kind of takes the gloss of it IMO.

Had it been in front of his home crowd in the second Test or even in the 3rd Test it probably would of been more significant or even better.

Still congragulations Lara. Was there 105 overs bowled?

Hmm his team has been thrashed in the first 3 tests,the daggers are out on his captaincy and his team are looking at their first home series whitewash defeat in history.
And your saying the pressure was off? lol

 

[tooextracool]

Hmm his team has been thrashed in the first 3 tests,the daggers are out on his captaincy and his team are looking at their first home series whitewash defeat in history.
And your saying the pressure was off? lol

i think what hes trying to say is that its come too late and on a flat wicket when it should have come when they had a chance in this series.
im not sure if we can say that its going to be a tame draw after what we saw in multan especially since we dont know how the pitch is going to play on the last 3 days. getting 500 to avoid the follow on isnt easy on any wicket especially when you'e got 2 out of form openers.
nonetheless great performance from lara....just wondering how many people on this forum want to see lara break the record...and how many of these people are actually english?(is it just me?)

 

[Craig]

Sorry, disagree.

A triple in test cricket is something so rare - all right, they're like the bus service where I live. You get none for a couple of years then three come along at once.

Since Gooch in 1990, there has been an average of one every couple of years - before that, it was less than one a decade. This says more about pitch preparation then anything else.

Look I realise they a rare achievement and did I not give Lara credit for it?

There are other reasons for their relative frequency, of course - a more rapid scoring rate in test cricket in general, better covers and post-rain clean-up so interruptions take less time out of the game (although this could be countered by 'twitchy' umpires) - and just the general frequency itself ("I see there's been a few triples of late. Might as well have a go myself. It can't be so hard, can it?").

Well, I reckon it's still a staggering achievement - and I sincerely hope that BCL goes on to make 400 and re-stake his claim to be the greatest batsman since Bradman (dons flame-proof clothing and legs it) then gets bowled by Steve Harmison.


When BCL started his innings, the pressure was most certainly ON - it could be argued that until the West Indies had made 500+ and BCL was well on his way to his 300, the pressure was still on, probably mose so than at any time in his career. Mind-numbing, carrying the weight of millions, dare not contemplate the possibility of failure pressure.

I heard the current match described as 'The most important in West Indian cricket history' and Lara's knock described as 'the most significant in West Indian history' because of the damage a 4-0 whitewash at home could have done.

THAT's pressure.

Fair points, but I'm commenting on how once the series is over he makes this huge score. It would have been better had it been in the second or third Tests.

 

[Craig]

nonetheless great performance from lara....just wondering how many people on this forum want to see lara break the record...and how many of these people are actually english?(is it just me?)

I do.

 

[luckyeddie]

Look I realise they a rare achievement and did I not give Lara credit for it?




Fair points, but I'm commenting on how once the series is over he makes this huge score. It would have been better had it been in the second or third Tests.

Woah! No-one's having a dig at you here. I'd actually go as far as saying that no batsman in the history of the world - including Bradman - would have made a triple in any one of the first three tests if you had given them three lives and just one stump to defend.

 

[luckyeddie]

I do.

And me

 

[marc71178]

He's stated that he'll go for it.

I took those odds half an hour before the close (when the declaration was on)

Still think that in spite of everything, to have him massively odds on to score 68 runs is quite an interesting bet.

 

[marc71178]

As much as it is a special innings, but to make a huge score when the pressure is off kind of takes the gloss of it IMO.

Pressure off?!!

The side is 3-0 down and has crumbled badly against a side that the fans are used to seeing being humiliated by the West Indians.

Are you trying to say that there's no pressure on Lara, as captain of that side?