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**Official** England in The West Indies

tooextracool

International Coach
Tom Halsey said:
True, but I still wouldn't drop him assome people (not necessarily you) have been saying.

Just a run of bad form.
yes i would assume that his run of bad form will run until we play at the oval or when we play against bangladesh or zimbabwe. its really ridiculous how u can support someone who has failed continuously against the top teams in the world and its not like he has the technique to say that he can do better(as is the case with ganga). if we stick with him till the nz tour i can guarantee you we're gonna have a major problem there.
heres my suggestion to the selectors since they seem to like tresco so much.....play him only when england plays at the oval or against zim and bangladesh
 

tooextracool

International Coach
PY said:
I can honestly say I'm happy for the guy. :)

Have W.I. given away their wickets again today or have England, even in the critics' eyes, bowled well today?

Can't get to a TV :(
what do u think....i really think west indies batted poorly and englands performance was what u call mediocre particularly in that first session when they were absolutely awful
 

tooextracool

International Coach
ok so i finally got to watch an entire days play on tv and hers my take on the performances.

gayle-im hardly surprised he failed when the ball was moving about and despite the fact that he was unlucky to be given out lbw to that ball it must be said that to miss a ball by an absolute mile and being caught in front of the stumps without any foot movement...you really should be given out anyways.
ganga- once again he looked techincally correct until he was caught plumb and not given out so despite being unlucky to be given out a few balls later he was out anyways.
lara- looked really determined and i thought he was going to score big until he got a good ball from flintoff.
sarwan- to be honest with you i was really impressed with the way he batted. he showed good application and batted with the same grit as hussain. there is some resemblence in their techniques too in the way they both open up in defence. poor shot in the end to get dismissed.
chanderpaul- looked completely out of touch and was really lucky to have got a 50 after he was dropped on 10..regulation slip catch to butcher who in my opinion really cant catch...how many times have we seen him drop absolute sitters??
hinds- poor shot to an ordinary ball
jacobs- got surprised by one that bounced a little more and ended up getting out in traditional jacobs fashion...youd think hed try to jump and play it down.

englands bowling was mediocre for me. hoggard looke amazing early on and harmison showed some resemblance to caddick in bowling too short in the 1st innings. harmison didnt look like taking wickets throughout the day in my opinion. jones looked absolutely pathetic with leg side wides and all. im baffled to see how people consider him as the next big thing for england but then thats what we thought abt harmo didnt we?flintoff in my opinion put in the most effort as always. he runs in every ball and hits the pitch hard and he deserved those 5 wickets.but on the whole after being 160 odd for 3 with the ball not doing much at all i must say that west indies batted very poorly indeed and england with that bowling eprformance were lucky to have dismissed them for 224. hoggard was the only one willing to take the chance of pitching the ball up and he looked really good in the morning session while harmison on those few occasions that he pitched the ball up got it to swing yet he continued to bowl it short(slightly thick in the head is he?). weve seen england bowl short on the first day of a test time and time again, i mean ud think they would have learnt by now looking back at their performances that they need to pitch the ball up.


**** Mod Edit: Your entitled to your views and feel free to share those, but please try and do so in a respectable manner, you may only have been joking but nobody would wish that on anyone. ****
 
Last edited by a moderator:

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
a massive zebra said:
Two hundreds and one 5 wicket haul in over 30 matches is hardly stunning (not to mention the mediocre averages), and although he may be improving, he still needs to do a lot more to justify the high reputation he holds in many circles.
You perhaps misunderstand my motives.

It wasn't what was said (I scratched my head for many a year when Flintoff got the nod over Cork etc) - I objected to the way the message was put across by an obvious troll.
 

garage flower

State Vice-Captain
tooextracool said:
ok so i finally got to watch an entire days play on tv and hers my take on the performances.

gayle-im hardly surprised he failed when the ball was moving about and despite the fact that he was unlucky to be given out lbw to that ball it must be said that to miss a ball by an absolute mile and being caught in front of the stumps without any foot movement...you really should be given out anyways.
ganga- once again he looked techincally correct until he was caught plumb and not given out so despite being unlucky to be given out a few balls later he was out anyways.
lara- looked really determined and i thought he was going to score big until he got a good ball from flintoff.
sarwan- to be honest with you i was really impressed with the way he batted. he showed good application and batted with the same grit as hussain. there is some resemblence in their techniques too in the way they both open up in defence. poor shot in the end to get dismissed.
chanderpaul- looked completely out of touch and was really lucky to have got a 50 after he was dropped on 10..regulation slip catch to butcher who in my opinion really cant catch...how many times have we seen him drop absolute sitters??
hinds- poor shot to an ordinary ball
jacobs- got surprised by one that bounced a little more and ended up getting out in traditional jacobs fashion...youd think hed try to jump and play it down.


Go along with a lot of that assessment of the Windies' performance and certainly 224 was way below par considering the pitch and England's bowling performance.

Ganga was as unconvincing as ever and it appears he's going to waste the 749th chance the selectors have given him.

Gayle's was just a sloppy dismissal despite the poor decision. He has far too many weaknesses for an opening batsman and they'll continue to be exploited far too frequently for him to be able to achieve a decent level of consistency.

Lara looked far more assured than he has done and his dismissal to a fairly innocuous, if accurate, delivery came completely out of the blue.

Sarwan has clearly been working on his problem area of shuffling across and being caught LB, but it nearly happened a couple of times and he never looked particularly confident. At least he showed a bit of grit though.

Chanderpaul looked a lot more positive, but should have been caught on 10 and should have batted through with the tail.

I missed Hinds' innings, but it was a dim, Dwayne Smith-like dismissal.

Jacobs can be forgiven one failure, but has to work out a way of playing those type of deliveries (either up on his toes as tooextracool suggests or taking them on the body, which is easy for me to say I suppose).

The least said about the tail the better, despite a useful contribution from Tino.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
<quack>

My two pennyworth - overall, it was the least impressive England bowling performance since, er, the last test.

They (Hoggard and Harmison) bowled reasonably ok for the first hour, but it was under the circumstances the wrong type of bowling. It was almost as though they had seen a pitch which was a throwback to 30 years ago (pace, bounce) and decided that they had to bang it in.

The lbw decisions to dismiss the openers were both poor, but Ganga had a plumb lbw turned down and you all know what I think about padding up. For the rest of the morning session, England continued to bang it in far too short and Lara and Sarwan had few problems.

Lunch for me was beans on toast with a few dried chillies in the beans. The West Indian cricketers must have felt confident of getting the scoreboard moving in the afternoon. For me, the beans and chillies were likely to have a similar effect.

More of the same from England in the afternoon - probably their poorest cricket on the tour. Fast bowlers often use a bouncer as a shock tactic to dismiss a stubborn batsman. Yesterday, Flintoff showed us a new take on the 'shock tactic' - he decided to use a good ball to Lara. The West Indian captain, unused to such a surprise delivery in the context of the match, helped the ball into the waiting hands of Butcher, who clung on. Two surprises in one.

Sarwan and Chanderpaul had few difficulties in taking the home team through to tea without further loss. A couple of one over spells by Harmison, back to his square-leg-umpire-threatening-best, came and went for about 9 runs each, the West Indian batsmen took a safety-first approach, ensuring that edges only went to Thorpe and Butcher, and tea arrived with the Islanders on 155-3 - back in the game with a vengeance.

The evening session saw norml service resumed. England, ably led by Harmison, took the unusual approach of putting the ball in the right place on the odd occasion. At the other end, we had Ashley Giles.

Sarwan hung out his bat, Harmison obliged by putting the ball in the batsman's half and Sarwan made the fatal error of edging the ball to the one slip fielder who can actually catch on occasion. A Harmison bouncer (aka a stock delivery) was heaved to Jones at deep backward square.

England's tactic of using Giles as comic value from one end brought them a sixth wicket as Harmison gave way to Flintoff. Jacobs, still laughing, unsuccessfully tried to fend one off and Collingwood, on for Hoggard, took a fine catch.

This West Indian side has a tail worthy of the name. Apart from a few twitches by Tino Best, the rest didn't have a clue. Fidel Edwards was heard to ask Brian Lara for advice as he went out to bat : "Hold the thin end" came the reply.

5 for Flintoff, 3 for Harmison, 1 for Jones, 1 for Hoggard who IMO was the only bowler worthy of a mention in the first 2 sessions yet who so cruelly went down with what was thought at the time was cramp, but was later revealed to be the most severe case of chapped lips the England physio had ever seen, on account of his licking them too much.

A dozen tricky overs at the end of the day were successfully negotiated without loss

<LE> I must interrupt you there, DD. England lost the wicket of Trescothick

As I was saying, ... successfully negotiated without loss, and they will feel confident of making far better use of what looks to be a very good batting track today.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Tom Halsey said:
Lol.

Stop dissing Tres!
<quack> Au contraire, my little Essex buddy. Fidel Edwards dissed Tres, bowled off his bat, his pads, his eye, dear.

<LE> 'His eye, dear'?

<quack> Thank you for correcting me, Lucky Eddie. You are right.

<LE> What?

<quack> No, you're quite correct

<LE> About what?

<quack> Tres having no eye, dear
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
tooextracool said:
what do u think....i really think west indies batted poorly and englands performance was what u call mediocre particularly in that first session when they were absolutely awful
Are you Richard in disguise?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Well I must say"take a bow Graeme Thorpe" - a great innings and well supported Jones and Harmison - neither of whom apparently cannot bat for toffee...
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
marc71178 said:
Well I must say"take a bow Graeme Thorpe" - a great innings and well supported Jones and Harmison - neither of whom apparently cannot bat for toffee...
Applause to a tremendous knock, although he was apparently plumb LBW on 71. Still brilliant.

Horrible shot by Gayle though... got carried away.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Tom Halsey said:
Lol.

Stop dissing Tres!

Haha, you are the opposite of Rik and Harmison (Keep praising someone even if they keep failing)

He looks absolutely awful... I hope the guy can piece things together, because he has done well in the past.. But i dont know what the solution is for a guy with such deep set technical flaws...

Hopefully tomorrow, Ganga will hit 100, and the West Indies will be bowled all out for 140... :)
 

tooextracool

International Coach
i dont understand how cricinfo can say "thorpe swings it englands way" when we only have a lead of 2 runs and since we hafta bat last on this wicket.
i missed the entire days play but after looking at the scorecard i was really disappointed. how long are we gonna persist with vaughan as captain if he fails in every innings as he has done so far in this series. flintoff and read continue to depress with the bat and thorpe once again shows that he is the only great player in the side. it looks like this side hasnt really changed since the mid 90s.
 

imagine

School Boy/Girl Captain
i saw the day's play and thought england batsmen didnt do well. all except thorpe that is. i thought he was very good. reminded me of something one of the commentators said. thorpe is too late in the batting order and he has to play with tail enders. but he did well with them.

the fast bowlers of windies bowled well, but they let it slip away after 147-7...

and the number 10 and 11 did a good job by staying with thorpe.
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
imagine said:
i saw the day's play and thought england batsmen didnt do well. all except thorpe that is. i thought he was very good.
Cozier - at least, I think it was Cozier - was trying to compare it with Gooch's 154* at Headingley, which I felt was a little extravagant.

But was this Thorpe's best innings for England? I might actually give that title to the Colombo match-winner in 2000-01, but this must have come close.

Cheers,

Mike
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
imagine said:
the fast bowlers of windies bowled well, but they let it slip away after 147-7...

and the number 10 and 11 did a good job by staying with thorpe.
To be quite honest, I felt the same way about it initially yesterday. I was ****ed by the West Indian bowlers, but in retrospect, they didn't bowl poorly. They actually tried their best to dislodge the last two wickets, but Jones and Harmison just hung in there.

Edwards was a concern though. He looked to have something seriously wrong in his last few overs. Perhaps he was just tired, but he dropped from 90mph to 80mph and was as such, not as effective.

The commentators read it right I believe - the pitch is good for batting, but the bowlers with pace will get something out of it.
 

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