**Official** England in the West Indies 2017

[theegyptian]

It's a hard balance to get right but Stokes seems to have gone a little too far the other way in his batting as the winter has worn on. i.e. too defensive/considered and too crease bound. I saw it in his batting in the India tests where he was playing like a gritty middle order bat. He can't forget his attacking instincts and strengths. I know Thorpe is one of the batting coaches and apparently is very decent but Stokes shouldn't be looking to replicate exactly what Thorpe did.

Regarding Buttler and I was saying this as far back as 2015/16 winter. Taking him on test tours to sit on the bench and net for 2 or 3 months at a time would kill you inside. They should be keeping him fresh instead of being the drinks carrier for months on end. You get stale and bad habits arise imo. All of that being said this dip in form may have nothing to my aforementioned complaint. I just wouldn't be putting unecessary miles on the clock for a player who is key to england's white ball fortunes and is a pretty average fc cricketer. Take Foakes next winter for the ashes unless you intend to pick Buttler.

And this collapse is why Billings would be so much better in the middle order. Makes no sense Ali at 7 and Billings opening. Billings strength is playing spin and rotating the strike, adaptable and calm under pressure, but suspect technically oustide off against pace . Moeen is a white ball opener, poor middle order player. I can understand why they don't want moeen opening but Billings isn't a good enough opener. The Stokes Ali axis at 5or 6 and 7 is so shaky especially in runchases even with Stokes improved ODI outputs.

Woakes showing why he got picked up for the IPL. Wouldn't get signed up on his bowling alone, but add in a smart, clean striker at 8 (or 7 at a push) and he isn't a bad pickup for a team.

 

[Watson33]

Rooooooot
Wooooakes

Seriously, I know it's almost the least important ODI ever, but really pleased to see us fighting back from the collapse so well.

Of course, the fact the collapse happened is perhaps a worrying concern.

Haven't had *too* many middle order collapses in recent ODI's though. But it always good to know your 7th wicket partnership can put on 100 comfortably. I like the steel of this England side, I think they have to be favourites for the CT in June. Home conditions, strength in depth. Just need to sort out death bowling really.

 

[Tom Flint]

Hales
Roy
Root
Billings
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Plunkett
Rashid
Wood
Would be my xi for the champions trophy

 

[grecian]

Hales
Roy
Root
Billings
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Plunkett
Rashid
Wood
Would be my xi for the champions trophy

Really don't think we need two spinners at home, and umm Morgan just scored a ton.

My side would be

Hales
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
ali
Woakes
Plunkett
Willey
Broad

But we won't pick Broad so the last 2 places should go with whomever is fit between Topley, Willey, Wood, Ball. If they're all crooked (which is quite possible), go with Finn then Jordan. Mind you I'd be interested to see Curran, doesn't do a lot with the ball, and isn't tall, but hey Brett Lee did okay with those criteria in ODI's just by being quick and showing decent variation.

Would be amusing if we just said "**** all the planning,it's English conditions, genuine chance of winning whack in Jimmeh and Stuey" honestly would be fun.

 

[MW1304]

I don't see how you could possibly argue for dropping Morgan right now, coming off the back of two away hundreds when nobody else in the team seems capable of doing so.

@grecian The trouble with that lineup, if you insist on only the one spinner, is that you have five seamers of a very similar pace and only the one left-arm variation. On a flat pitch that could be brutal. English pitches haven't proved much more helpful for seamers than the rest of the world, so I would say two spinners are an absolute must.

 

[grecian]

I don't see how you could possibly argue for dropping Morgan right now, coming off the back of two away hundreds when nobody else in the team seems capable of doing so.

@grecian The trouble with that lineup, if you insist on only the one spinner, is that you have five seamers of a very similar pace and only the one left-arm variation. On a flat pitch that could be brutal. English pitches haven't proved much more helpful for seamers than the rest of the world, so I would say two spinners are an absolute must.

Got Root as well, I think thery're different enough bowlers to go with. Look Rashid and Ali have hardly been a killer combo on pitches that suit them. We've just got **** spinners, I'm just not keen on playing them. There's no other options either, I mean Liam Dawson. I would rather have the variety myself, but not when it's awful.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Got to have Finn in there. May as well get Ballance as well. In a hundred years time the ECB will be still selecting Finn and Ballance.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I don't see how you could possibly argue for dropping Morgan right now, coming off the back of two away hundreds when nobody else in the team seems capable of doing so.

@grecian The trouble with that lineup, if you insist on only the one spinner, is that you have five seamers of a very similar pace and only the one left-arm variation. On a flat pitch that could be brutal. English pitches haven't proved much more helpful for seamers than the rest of the world, so I would say two spinners are an absolute must.

You think so, in early-mid June England? All you need usually is some dibbly dobbly medium seaming rubbish and you are sorted at that time of year, unless the groundsman have express instructions to break with decades of tradition and prepare wickets which turn (which is quite possible to be honest, thinking about how they have been trying to encourage spin in this country by messing with the coin toss).

I still would just go with one spinner though.

 

[MW1304]

Got Root as well, I think thery're different enough bowlers to go with. Look Rashid and Ali have hardly been a killer combo on pitches that suit them. We've just got **** spinners, I'm just not keen on playing them. There's no other options either, I mean Liam Dawson. I would rather have the variety myself, but not when it's awful.

Rashid's outperformed Ali comfortably with the ball in the last year or so, and had a pretty respectable home summer. He wrecked in Bangladesh too, so not entirely true about not performing when conditions suit.

Yeah he's not a world-beater and he'll have an off day when he gets carted around the park occasionally. But that's no different to every other one of our bowlers, whom it's been happening to far more often. I'd take him over assorted 85mph right hander who doesn't do much with the ball.

 

[MW1304]

You think so, in early-mid June England? All you need usually is some dibbly dobbly medium seaming rubbish and you are sorted at that time of year, unless the groundsman have express instructions to break with decades of tradition and prepare wickets which turn (which is quite possible to be honest, thinking about how they have been trying to encourage spin in this country by messing with the coin toss).

I still would just go with one spinner though.

Look at the last couple of series England have played at home in June. Not exactly low-scoring, seam-dominated matches.

Two summers ago was this one: Results | England v New Zealand | ESPN Cricinfo

I believe it holds the record for runs scored in a 5-game series, or close to.

 

[grecian]

Rashid's outperformed Ali comfortably with the ball in the last year or so, and had a pretty respectable home summer. He wrecked in Bangladesh too, so not entirely true about not performing when conditions suit.

Yeah he's not a world-beater and he'll have an off day when he gets carted around the park occasionally. But that's no different to every other one of our bowlers, whom it's been happening to far more often. I'd take him over assorted 85mph right hander who doesn't do much with the ball.

Wouldn't be against Rashid playing instead of Moeen, yet he still goes at 5.50+ an over even when he's taking wickets. it's all meh. Only played one match against India as he was so awful in the five overs he bowled.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Look at the last couple of series England have played at home in June. Not exactly low-scoring, seam-dominated matches.

Two summers ago was this one: Results | England v New Zealand | ESPN Cricinfo

I believe it holds the record for runs scored in a 5-game series, or close to.

True - and Rashid had a bit of joy among the wickets as I recall. I guess I'm too used to Championship games at that time of year.

 

[Beamer]

Another frustrating international. Just a little bit of know how and common sense, a long with a bit more fortune, could have seen us win that. So I guess that's encouraging.

As I said before, this team does have something about it but it is going to take a few tweaks and a lot of patience before we can really start winning games.

Carlos Braithwaite was comprehensively outperformed by pretty much everyone in the List A competition. He is somehow keeping out Rovman Powell, which is quite frankly a travesty. Powell is. Serious talent and would add much needed firepower to the middle/lower order.

It's also painfully obvious that Alzarri Joseph needs to play alongside Shannon Gabriel. It was just too easy for England to get through the overs (admittedly the umpire helped Roy today but other than that they got Through Holders spell comfortably).

We need Powell or Lewis to score big for Kraigg to be effective. He would be fine at staying in and letting the overhaul dominate from the other end. But situations like today just show him up.

 

[Beamer]

Also, England do need to sort their middle over batting against spin. I dread to think what would have happened against Sunil Narine or a really decent spinner on that surface. Other than that, their batting is in superb shape and I fancy their chances of racking up big scores in the Champions Trophy.

 

[Tom Flint]

Iv never included morgan in an england team, iv never agreed with selecting players who should really be playing for their home countries. Nothing to do with his ability with the bat.
Should really have had willey instead of plunkett too, such a threat in his first spell.
Also bairstow has to be in there, his been one of the most consistent batsmen in the world the last 2 years, let alone in england. He would also go at close to a run a ball and rarely fails when actually given a go for us in odi's.
Hales
Roy
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Willey
Rashid
Wood

 

[Adders]

Morgan may not be English, but I'd wager he at least has a better grasp of our language than you do.

Out of interest, who else do you blackball from your England 11's for this reason??

 

[Tom Flint]

Lol how can you possibly argue against it, he's irish ffs. You shouldnt qaulify for a different country just because your own isn't very good. How is that fair on all the other sides around the world who produce their own.
Kp, trott, ballance, jordan, rawlins ect.
Stokes is fine imo, english dad and came over as a child

 

[Tom Flint]

Im just uncomfortable and a bit embarrased sometimes when half our team speak with a foreign accent

 

[S.Kennedy]

England has often been a band of foreign mercenaries-for-hire. Strauss era there was barely a player who wasn't Afrikaner.

 

[Howe_zat]

Im just uncomfortable and a bit embarrased sometimes when half our team speak with a foreign accent

oh why didn't you say so

serious action must be taken to stop you from being embarrassed