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***Official*** England in Sri Lanka
- Thread starter JASON
- Start date
SpaceMonkey
International Debutant
Never underestimate Englands ability to lose gamesLOLolzers, Fernando on a hat-trick.
Predictably, the commentators talk with worry.No-one, England included, can lose a game with 18 needed from 45 with 8 wickets in hand. NOT POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
stumpski
International Captain
Great ball to get rid of Shah, but he'll be gutted he didn't see the job through. England should win this in the next few minutes - hopefully all the reserves will get a game in the last match. Mascarenhas must be especially disappointed not to have played in his parents' homeland.
SpaceMonkey
International Debutant
Unbelievable win against the 2nd best one day side in their own backyard. Shows the win vs India wasn't a fluke. Lets hope we can build on this over the next 12 months. Batting needs to improve though.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
So does the bowling IMO. Any fool can bowl well in Dambulla (not that Anderson really did), and while the performance today (Broad aside) was excellent, it's just a single performance.
Fully expect the next time we get on flat pitches for the bowling to be taken apart. You can call that curmadgeonism; I call it realism. It's happened so many times before, and as I say earlier, I get sick of people reacting the exact same way every single false-dawn.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Fair point actually. Part of me thinks it's other teams going backwards rather than progress from us, but I'd have to say our bowling at least is looking in better shape than this time last year.
Batting still not convincing tho.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It also looked better in September 2004 than it did in December 2003 or May 2004.
Are you prepared to believe it won't go backwards again soon the way it has done so many hundreds of times the last 7 years? (And, ITBT, a few occasions before that too)
TheEpic
School Boy/Girl Captain
If you look at the total shambles our ODI team was in a mere 18 months ago or less, I think we should all be bloody ecstatic about this series result really. I know we're not the finished article, and there remains significant problems in the side, but this really is a huge result and we should be congratulating the lads on a job fantastically well done.
TheEpic
School Boy/Girl Captain
I don't care. This isn't the same side. It's a different team with a different coach. I'm not saying this is the new dawn or whatever, but its a hugely significant step which we should be celebrating in the short term, if nothing else. This kind of doom and gloom after such a great result is senseless.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Agreed, actually. We all know about the weaknesses in the batting, and I haven't seen anyone say otherwise, but this is a terrific win and a bit of credit is due. Not least to the coach, who I haven't been slow to criticise previously.
And actually, there haven't been too many false dawns in recent years. Obviously the CBS in Aus, but that always felt like a fluke given the identity of our opening bowlers and the reliance on Collingwood batting like he had never come remotely close to previously in his career. Other than that, what has there been? A decent ICC tournament in 2004 followed by a decent NW challenge (or was it the NW Series?) against Aus in 2005, and that's about it, isn't it? As Neil said, there's been no other away wins since 1992. And how many significant wins have there even been at home? I can only think of Pak & SA in 2003, which were both fine performances, but you'd hope that the current attack will last rather longer than Gough & Johnson were ever likely to.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
In the last 6 years (since the fact that there was a real problem first became obvious in 2000\01 and 2001 when we lost those 11 on the bounce) there have been:
The "comebacks" (without even winning a series) in India and New Zealand in 2001\02, heralded by so many as such brilliant efforts. Easy to forget this with the hindsight, but people went completely OTT at the time, saying England were building a good side.
The NWS of 2002, where this and that went right, and mostly it was just said to be the bowling that needed a bit of something and then we'd be a top side.
The NWC and NWS of 2003, which whatever you say David wasn't just concerning Gough and Johnson (who was aged 28 at the time), there was a whole load of overreaction concerning so-and-so - heck, some even dared to believe Vikram Solanki was going to become a ODI-class opener, for crying out loud!
The Champions Trophy of 2004, and the preceding India three-match series.
The 2005 ODIs against Australia where England were widely thought to have come-off well (even on CW there were those busy championing England as 2nd-best in ODIs) despite losing 3-2, with only rain and a Pietersen special stopping it from being 5-1. Duncan Fletcher said he was certain of 9 out of 11 for the World Cup team and before anyone gets on his back specifically, I don't recall one single person (other than me) saying at the time that any of those players were unlikely to become good ODI players.
Then there were the comebacks against Pakistan and in Australia.
As I said - I'm sick of it TBH. If doom and gloom after this "sensational" result is unacceptible, it's a damn sight better than the short-sighted nonsense of jumping on every single latest bandwagon and proclaiming Sajid Mahmood the greatest prospect since Bill Lockwood - which, while I'm exaggerating there, there were any number of people stopping not too far short of doing (who was yelling in every single article they wrote concerning the subject "get him out FFS!"? No-one, that's who - they were all too busy saying how he had potential because he was an athlete and could bowl a bit of reverse-swing).
False-dawns are what English do best in ODI cricket, and there's little different about this case than any in the previous 6 years. All that's happened is a few wholly average players have played above themselves and come-up against some rubbish and some underperforming opposition. You mark my words, sometime in the next 2 years we'll be back exactly where we were in June this year, in June 2006 and so many other times, and then before long we'll be back where we are currently again too.
It's too familiar for there to be any other logical conclusion.
The "comebacks" (without even winning a series) in India and New Zealand in 2001\02, heralded by so many as such brilliant efforts. Easy to forget this with the hindsight, but people went completely OTT at the time, saying England were building a good side.
The NWS of 2002, where this and that went right, and mostly it was just said to be the bowling that needed a bit of something and then we'd be a top side.
The NWC and NWS of 2003, which whatever you say David wasn't just concerning Gough and Johnson (who was aged 28 at the time), there was a whole load of overreaction concerning so-and-so - heck, some even dared to believe Vikram Solanki was going to become a ODI-class opener, for crying out loud!
The Champions Trophy of 2004, and the preceding India three-match series.
The 2005 ODIs against Australia where England were widely thought to have come-off well (even on CW there were those busy championing England as 2nd-best in ODIs) despite losing 3-2, with only rain and a Pietersen special stopping it from being 5-1. Duncan Fletcher said he was certain of 9 out of 11 for the World Cup team and before anyone gets on his back specifically, I don't recall one single person (other than me) saying at the time that any of those players were unlikely to become good ODI players.
Then there were the comebacks against Pakistan and in Australia.
As I said - I'm sick of it TBH. If doom and gloom after this "sensational" result is unacceptible, it's a damn sight better than the short-sighted nonsense of jumping on every single latest bandwagon and proclaiming Sajid Mahmood the greatest prospect since Bill Lockwood - which, while I'm exaggerating there, there were any number of people stopping not too far short of doing (who was yelling in every single article they wrote concerning the subject "get him out FFS!"? No-one, that's who - they were all too busy saying how he had potential because he was an athlete and could bowl a bit of reverse-swing).
False-dawns are what English do best in ODI cricket, and there's little different about this case than any in the previous 6 years. All that's happened is a few wholly average players have played above themselves and come-up against some rubbish and some underperforming opposition. You mark my words, sometime in the next 2 years we'll be back exactly where we were in June this year, in June 2006 and so many other times, and then before long we'll be back where we are currently again too.
It's too familiar for there to be any other logical conclusion.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Well, I'm going to enjoy it, if only because I don't expect to be so chipper in a few weeks time when MM has spun us to an innings defeat in Galle and the batting's probably collapsed in at least one of the other tests too.
There is, of course, some truth in what you said, and there's nothing to be gained by nitpicking the bits where I don't concur. tbh I hadn't realised Johnson was only 28 in 2003, but given his track record, he was always likely to hobble off at some point in the not-to-distant future, which is what I meant even if I didn't say as much.
I suppose, when it comes to it, the difference this time is that this side has actually won a couple of series and that, apart from 2003, simply hasn't happened in a very long time. Obviously these results can turn on small things going right or wrong, but I'm sticking with "winning can become a habit" for the moment, and if that makes me look very silly next summer then so be it. Maybe it would be interesting to compare the side from 4 years ago to this one. IIRC the batting was even more obviously shaky then than it is now - IIRC we were massively overdependant on Tres that summer. Maybe it wouldn't.
There is, of course, some truth in what you said, and there's nothing to be gained by nitpicking the bits where I don't concur. tbh I hadn't realised Johnson was only 28 in 2003, but given his track record, he was always likely to hobble off at some point in the not-to-distant future, which is what I meant even if I didn't say as much.
I suppose, when it comes to it, the difference this time is that this side has actually won a couple of series and that, apart from 2003, simply hasn't happened in a very long time. Obviously these results can turn on small things going right or wrong, but I'm sticking with "winning can become a habit" for the moment, and if that makes me look very silly next summer then so be it. Maybe it would be interesting to compare the side from 4 years ago to this one. IIRC the batting was even more obviously shaky then than it is now - IIRC we were massively overdependant on Tres that summer. Maybe it wouldn't.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Trescothick was the leading light in 2003, but as I said there were other things people found the excuse to get excited about...
Solanki and his chancy century against South Africa plus arm-chancing, nothing-to-lose 50 in the NWS final.
Vaughan and his apparently becoming a ODI-class player - hah!
Flintoff - likewise.
Read doing a decent lower-order job - until we decided to get Geraint Jones who's never had a hope in OD cricket in instead of him.
Flintoff, Gough and to an extent Johnson obviously bowled well, and Anderson's infernal golden-arm was at its most golden ever. Heck, even Giles finished a mostly wretched two series with 10-29-0 and 3-3-2. Rikki Clarke got 3 wickets, and if that happens you know something's seriously wrong with the opposition.
As for winning series - not the ultimate IMO. We were going well in 1999\2000, even though we didn't eventually win the tri-series (we did beat Zimbabwe comfortably then come home and win our home tri-series pretty emphatically). We've won and drawn series, though, with very poor sides and this is one such case IMO.
Solanki and his chancy century against South Africa plus arm-chancing, nothing-to-lose 50 in the NWS final.
Vaughan and his apparently becoming a ODI-class player - hah!
Flintoff - likewise.
Read doing a decent lower-order job - until we decided to get Geraint Jones who's never had a hope in OD cricket in instead of him.
Flintoff, Gough and to an extent Johnson obviously bowled well, and Anderson's infernal golden-arm was at its most golden ever. Heck, even Giles finished a mostly wretched two series with 10-29-0 and 3-3-2. Rikki Clarke got 3 wickets, and if that happens you know something's seriously wrong with the opposition.
As for winning series - not the ultimate IMO. We were going well in 1999\2000, even though we didn't eventually win the tri-series (we did beat Zimbabwe comfortably then come home and win our home tri-series pretty emphatically). We've won and drawn series, though, with very poor sides and this is one such case IMO.
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wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Ah well, lets move on. Do we yet know when the test squad will be announced or have I missed it? It seems inconceivable to me that we're still waiting at this late stage.
I wonder who'll be in our attack when the first test starts. And do we now assume that Mustard will be in the test side if Prior's still not healed up.
I wonder who'll be in our attack when the first test starts. And do we now assume that Mustard will be in the test side if Prior's still not healed up.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
LMAO, Mustard in the test side.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
With regards to the bowling attack I think it's fairly predictable that Harmison will be included and Hoggard is obviously a must, Sidebottom and Anderson will probably contest the 3rd seamers spot and Panesar I imagine will keep his place ahead of Swann.
As for the wicketkeeper, Nic Pothas or Tim Ambrose should get the gloves if Prior is deemed unfit for the 1st test.
As for the wicketkeeper, Nic Pothas or Tim Ambrose should get the gloves if Prior is deemed unfit for the 1st test.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Absolutely, but I'm trying to get my head round what's going on if Prior isn't able to play. Presumably Foster et al will have made other arrangements by now?LMAO, Mustard in the test side.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Haha, completely forgot Foster, he'll definetely be in there with a shout along with Pothas, Ambrose and Read imo.