***Official*** England in Sri Lanka

[chaminda_00]

Was in the CT iirc, gun tournament as well.

Out of season pitches as well. Not really normal Indian tracks or even the normal type of ODI tracks.

 

[Goughy]

Bats were not poor in 1998 or 1999, though, and 5 extra overs of field-restrictions will not make much of a difference.

A good bowler should and will hope to go for less than 4-an-over unless they're bowling in the last 10 overs.

Bats have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. The game has also changed, whether it be bats, fielding restrictions, ground size and an increased realization of what is possible.

Under 5 is a more than acceptable rate from my POV. To just assume the bowling is worse simply based on the fact ecomony rates have increased and that they would be lowered if others were playing is to completely ignore the evolution of the game and the changes that have happened.

 

[Athlai]

Geez, stats man is working hard tonight

Players and economy rates for 2007.

Abdur Razzak - 4.61
Mashrafe Mortaza - 4.55
Syed Rasel - 4.08
Brad Hogg - 4.48
Makhaya Ntini - 4.48
Chaminda Vaas - 3.46
Muttiah Muralitharan - 3.91

Not to mention the obvious bowlers like Bond, McGrath etc who I can almost guarrantee will be going at less than 5 an over.

Was looking at games since the WC TBH. And I realise the best bowlers still on average remain under 5, I was just saying we see them more often OVER it. Murali had a few 6+ers this year for one.

Economy rates are just going to keep creeping up and up. Short grounds, nothing pitches and developing aggressive batting is going to change what we consider good.

 

[Perm]

Was looking at games since the WC TBH. And I realise the best bowlers still on average remain under 5, I was just saying we see them more often OVER it. Murali had a few 6+ers this year for one.

Economy rates are just going to keep creeping up and up. Short grounds, nothing pitches and developing aggressive batting is going to change what we consider good.

Oh, totally. We've gone from seeing 300 as unchaseable to realising that 436 (I think) is acheivable. I CBF'd working out economy rates since the World Cup, it's too late

 

[Richard]

Can't really know if he was misused for sure though really, what if Anderson was brought into the attack and went for 20?

Sri Lanka were in a great position and he remained unmaulled.

Then Anderson would have done crap.

Just because someone can do poorly and better than someone else who'd do abysmally, doesn't mean they shouldn't have been used differently.

 

[Richard]

Maybe it was just that the Sri Lanka batsmen played him better at the back end of his spell when they got used to him.

Also if he is going to be a half decent spinner you can't shield him from the final 10 overs and powerplays all the time. Eventually he will have to get used to bowling during those periods. Vettori and Patel have shown that finger spinners can perform a role during those periods. Jayasuriya made his bowling career bowling during those periods.

Even if you can't do all the time, I'd say you should be doing early on in his career.

I can think of several good spinners who've carved-out excellent careers bowling mostly in middle-overs, Dharmasena being probably the best of the lot.

 

[andyc]

Pakistan pwn India
**** up you cheating ****

Etc.

4444444444444444444. Love trolling there every now and then. Keep an eye out tonight

 

[Richard]

Bats have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. The game has also changed, whether it be bats, fielding restrictions, ground size and an increased realization of what is possible.

Under 5 is a more than acceptable rate from my POV. To just assume the bowling is worse simply based on the fact ecomony rates have increased and that they would be lowered if others were playing is to completely ignore the evolution of the game and the changes that have happened.

It's not just based on increasing ODI economy-rates, it's based on things that have happened in Tests too.

The best bowlers of the late 1990s, those few still playing in the last 3 or 4 years, have continued to excel to their exact previous levels.

 

[chaminda_00]

Even if you can't do all the time, I'd say you should be doing early on in his career.

I can think of several good spinners who've carved-out excellent careers bowling mostly in middle-overs, Dharmasena being probably the best of the lot.

The only reason Dharmasena got away with it was cus Murali and Jaysuriya bowled at the death. Also he did bowl quite a bit in the first 15 himself. If it wasn't was his ability to bowl with a newish bowl and allow Murali to bowl with the older ball, then he wouldn't have played as many games as he did. He really isn't a good explain of a stock standard finger spinner who bowled only in middle order, cus he bowled quite a bit during the first 15.

 

[Perm]

4444444444444444444. Love trolling there every now and then. Keep an eye out tonight

Haha, legend.

 

[andyc]

Haha, legend.

It's so much harder given that India aren't actually playing

 

[Perm]

It's so much harder given that India aren't actually playing

Yeah, and Sri Lankans are pretty well behaved. Certainly the best of the Asian countries. Meh, arsehole Pom I guess

 

[andyc]

Meh, I give up, I'm off to bed. England to win btw, SL will miss Murali too much.

 

[Richard]

The only reason Dharmasena got away with it was cus Murali and Jaysuriya bowled at the death. Also he did bowl quite a bit in the first 15 himself. If it wasn't was his ability to bowl with a newish bowl and allow Murali to bowl with the older ball, then he wouldn't have played as many games as he did. He really isn't a good explain of a stock standard finger spinner who bowled only in middle order, cus he bowled quite a bit during the first 15.

He did, and he was pretty good at that too.

I don't really get what you mean by most of that post though TBH. You basically seem to be saying Dharmasena had no right to bowl well at early stages because Murali and Jayasuriya did it later on. Dharmasena did the job earlier in the innings very well indeed, and Murali and Jayasuriya later. What's wrong with that?

 

[Goughy]

It's not just based on increasing ODI economy-rates, it's based on things that have happened in Tests too.

The best bowlers of the late 1990s, those few still playing in the last 3 or 4 years, have continued to excel to their exact previous levels.

Thats not remotely true. Funnily enough, a few days ago I did a run rate comparison from all bowlers with 200 or more Test wickets (ie the top bowlers) that played at least 20 Tests in the 90s and a min of 20 Tests in the 2000s.

The vast majority saw their runrates increased with only 1 or 2 decline. Far different to how you would assume if it was normal variation.

Cant find my piece of paper now though. Dont take my word on it as Ill post the info as soon as I find it.

 

[Perm]

444444444444

i bet india wish they had a real keeper playing for them, LOL

look, i'm just putting this out there, but this mustard fella>>>>> > ms dhoni, for sure

 

[Perm]

Still not too keen on Lasith Malinga opening the bowling TBH, if he does I'd only give him a couple of overs.

 

[Matt79]

It was average because he was misused by Collingwood. Had he been used better, he'd hopefully have done better. As it was, he was asked to do a job he is not capable of doing.

It's not his fault he was misused, obviously, but as a result of being so his spell was less good than it could have been.

Vaas bowling well here - as he so often does in this role for SL - GO CVAAS!

Cook looks good as an ODI opener - though they'll need to continue looking for a more explosive partner for him to take advantage of the powerplays. Mustard looks keen (ba-boom tish) but raw.

 

[Matt79]

I'm off to bed - newborn baby means I can't stay up past midnight these days, or I die the next day after at least two wake ups during the night. England should win this, but SL may well cut them down if the pitch plays up and England don't keep their head.

 

[Matt79]

Bats have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. The game has also changed, whether it be bats, fielding restrictions, ground size and an increased realization of what is possible.

Under 5 is a more than acceptable rate from my POV. To just assume the bowling is worse simply based on the fact ecomony rates have increased and that they would be lowered if others were playing is to completely ignore the evolution of the game and the changes that have happened.

Agree with this btw. I reckon the bowling attacks in ODIs are actually pretty good worldwide at the moment - given that we've moved on from having four specialists and an allrounder to 3 specialists and a couple of allrounders. The days of a number 8 being a specialist bowler are pretty much gone in ODIs now.